Ques. for moto cops out there.
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Road Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 181
From: Texas
Ques. for moto cops out there.
All the city moto cops I see around town are always riding two abreast
right next to each other in a single lane..no stagger at all. This seems mighty dangerous.
Is this common with all MC cops or are our locals
just trying to look cool without regard to their safety???
right next to each other in a single lane..no stagger at all. This seems mighty dangerous.
Is this common with all MC cops or are our locals
just trying to look cool without regard to their safety???
Last edited by agapsdiver; Dec 24, 2009 at 09:54 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,396
Likes: 146
From:
I'm old so I learned to ride the same way as the cops. A few years back I rode with some people who all rode in each others blind spots, you know, staggered. It seemed dangerous to me. I spent too much time trying to see who was behind me, because he wasn't behind me, he was somewhere back there, but in the other "tire track." The guys I ride with from the old club ride two abreast. When we want to tear it up in the twisties we just signal to ride single file. That way the guy behind you is really behind you, and visable in the mirror.
I talked at length to a Wyoming State Patrol Commander last summer. Wyoming once had a law prohibiting two abreast riding. This Commander lobbied to change it back, they did. Why? He held up his thumb at arms length to show that that would completely block seeing my bud, who is 6' 5" and over 250lbs, at about 50 to 75 feet away. He claimed drivers would only see the lead bike at times because it blocked the staggered trailing bike. After the lead bike passed they turned left into the trailing bike. He had numbers, drivers who hit and several times killed riders, and said this was the reason. How do you argue with that?
Now, at the risk of being flamed by the MSFers and the "Learn to ride by video" crowd, I gotta say that the cops are some of the best riders on the road. The courses they ride include a lot of hazzards. In Denver they have to hit road cones until one sticks it the front fender and locks up the front wheel. They know more, and most can ride the sox off of most M.S.F teachers. There are always exceptions, but as a rule, that's true.
I truly can't believe how badly the average rider rides nowadays. It's a fashion statement to a lot of people to ride. I guess riding staggered keeps them from running into each other in the curves. If you can hold a line, and the cops can, riding two abreast makes more sense.
I talked at length to a Wyoming State Patrol Commander last summer. Wyoming once had a law prohibiting two abreast riding. This Commander lobbied to change it back, they did. Why? He held up his thumb at arms length to show that that would completely block seeing my bud, who is 6' 5" and over 250lbs, at about 50 to 75 feet away. He claimed drivers would only see the lead bike at times because it blocked the staggered trailing bike. After the lead bike passed they turned left into the trailing bike. He had numbers, drivers who hit and several times killed riders, and said this was the reason. How do you argue with that?
Now, at the risk of being flamed by the MSFers and the "Learn to ride by video" crowd, I gotta say that the cops are some of the best riders on the road. The courses they ride include a lot of hazzards. In Denver they have to hit road cones until one sticks it the front fender and locks up the front wheel. They know more, and most can ride the sox off of most M.S.F teachers. There are always exceptions, but as a rule, that's true.
I truly can't believe how badly the average rider rides nowadays. It's a fashion statement to a lot of people to ride. I guess riding staggered keeps them from running into each other in the curves. If you can hold a line, and the cops can, riding two abreast makes more sense.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,500
Likes: 332
From: Blue Grass (KY)
I'm not a Motor Officer ( I wish, dream job, ride all day and get paid for it)
Anyway, I know quite a few and these Men and Women can ride...so riding abreast is not showing off or dangerous for them....they know what they are doing and how to avoid each other.....check out a compition some time or just go to youtube and check them out....
Anyway, I know quite a few and these Men and Women can ride...so riding abreast is not showing off or dangerous for them....they know what they are doing and how to avoid each other.....check out a compition some time or just go to youtube and check them out....
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,449
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From: Roswell, GA
Wyoming has two U.S. Senators, but only one Congressional seat. The state's population is a touch over 500,000 compared to Georgia's almost 10 million, and Wyoming is 70% larger in area. My point is Wyoming is a sparsely populated state that poses far different riding/traffic hazards compared to Metro Atlanta.
Notwithstanding those differences, I don't know anyone that I trust enough to ride next to me in parade fashion; and I don't trust my riding skills enough to ride next to another rider. He or I need to swerve and if one of us gets it wrong, bad things will happen.
Motor officers are the professionals; the vast majority of us are mere amateurs by comparison. I'll stay with the MSF 2 second/1 second staggered formation for my group riding.
Notwithstanding those differences, I don't know anyone that I trust enough to ride next to me in parade fashion; and I don't trust my riding skills enough to ride next to another rider. He or I need to swerve and if one of us gets it wrong, bad things will happen.
Motor officers are the professionals; the vast majority of us are mere amateurs by comparison. I'll stay with the MSF 2 second/1 second staggered formation for my group riding.
Road Master
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 0
From: McHenry, IL
I took a motor police course a couple years back. As a courtesy, the sr. instructor let a MSF teacher ride along. He didn't last long. Anyway, the SR. Instructor and his son completed the entire Illinois department of motor vehicles motorcycle course two abrest on road kings. This was not done to show off, it was done to show people that the course does not have to be taken on a honda rebel and that it can actually be done on a big boy bike. They discussed riding 2 to a lane and do not recommend it to the average joe but do acknowlege the safety aspect of it.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,341
Likes: 9
From: Woodinville, WA
If you ride with the same person long enough riding two abreast is straight forward. I've a friend I've been riding with for 10 years and we ride side by side sometimes. The trick is you know each other's riding style very very well. I think this is how cops can do it - they're all trained the same way and have bad habits beat out of them. I was actually told by a cop once that riding 2 abreast was a good way of avoiding a speeding ticket - 9 times out of 10 a highway patrol officer will assume you're cops.
Never ever try to ride this way with a stranger tho'!
Never ever try to ride this way with a stranger tho'!
Last edited by davessworks; Dec 24, 2009 at 11:57 PM.
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
I am a motor officer. When just rolling around town we ride two abreast so that we can communicate, see your partner, and is safer and more compact when riding in traffic. It does limit your line choice in a lane and some escape routes, but the trade off's are benefitial in most cases. If we are on a narrow road, one without much of a shoulder or lots of curves we will stager or go single file. When side by side you can get real close and bump without any drama or excitement. If you are off by a foot or so, things do get interesting.
As a side note we do train a lot and know/trust your wingman. We do slow cone work as well as high speed courses, both in house and through Team Oregon (MSF-like). All my new motors I bring on without a prior endorsement I require to go through the Team Oregon basic course. They do a great job of teaching the basics of head/eyes clutch and throttle.
Riding two abreast works well for us. For two average riders I would caution against it unless you practice your basic skills a lot, like braking and looking ahead. One other thing to consider is that our motors are all the same, so things line up. I have ridden pairs with unlike models and if you bump (and you probably will) things like mirrors get stuck between the brake and throttle or legs get pinched. Unless you practice it a lot it can be distracting and you might miss something important.
Anyway, anyone can ride like a motor officer it just takes practice. The Harley's are some of the easiest to ride slow and turn extremely sharp. Very nice motorcycles for sure!! The hard part for people to take is that if you push yourself to get better you will drop your bike eventually. My motor is a tool. I use it every day and it gets beat up, no doubt about it. My work bIke is a BMW. My play bike is a FLHX!
As a side note we do train a lot and know/trust your wingman. We do slow cone work as well as high speed courses, both in house and through Team Oregon (MSF-like). All my new motors I bring on without a prior endorsement I require to go through the Team Oregon basic course. They do a great job of teaching the basics of head/eyes clutch and throttle.
Riding two abreast works well for us. For two average riders I would caution against it unless you practice your basic skills a lot, like braking and looking ahead. One other thing to consider is that our motors are all the same, so things line up. I have ridden pairs with unlike models and if you bump (and you probably will) things like mirrors get stuck between the brake and throttle or legs get pinched. Unless you practice it a lot it can be distracting and you might miss something important.
Anyway, anyone can ride like a motor officer it just takes practice. The Harley's are some of the easiest to ride slow and turn extremely sharp. Very nice motorcycles for sure!! The hard part for people to take is that if you push yourself to get better you will drop your bike eventually. My motor is a tool. I use it every day and it gets beat up, no doubt about it. My work bIke is a BMW. My play bike is a FLHX!
Last edited by deeve; Dec 25, 2009 at 12:19 AM.
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Road Warrior
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,847
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From: FT Bragg NC
I think that's what it really comes down to. The riding ability of the riders. I've ridden both ways and like riding 2 abreast better.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
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I am a motor and we ride side by side in town but get out on the highway for any length of time and we go staggered. The Rider on the left is the lead and the rider on the right reacts off of the lead rider. We spend many hours riding pairs and after a while you have total trust in your partners. It makes you more visible so that adds a bit of safety. We always commincate our intentions and it all becomes second nature. We do a drill where we actually ride with one of our hands on each others handlebar and also spend many hours clicking each others crashbars.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,675
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From: Billings,Mt.
Out here, the motorcops ride side by side on the freeways.