Primary Oil
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,788
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From: Here
[SIZE=1]
This seems to go round and round but you sound like you have some experience. I have been running Harley Syn3 in engine,75-90 Synethic in transmission and Formula 1 in primary. Would not mind not hearing less a clunk going in 1st but not really sure why you think Type F would reduce it. I know the 75-90 Syn is thinner then Formula 1 and when I put in in transmission it clunks a tad louder and I had read try 75-140Syn. I ride year round and need an oil to suit 99 degrees to 35 degrees and I was thinking the 140 may cause shift problems in the winter. Is you line of thinking that the type F helps the clutch plates disengage due to oil windage and therefore less clunk shifting into first?
This seems to go round and round but you sound like you have some experience. I have been running Harley Syn3 in engine,75-90 Synethic in transmission and Formula 1 in primary. Would not mind not hearing less a clunk going in 1st but not really sure why you think Type F would reduce it. I know the 75-90 Syn is thinner then Formula 1 and when I put in in transmission it clunks a tad louder and I had read try 75-140Syn. I ride year round and need an oil to suit 99 degrees to 35 degrees and I was thinking the 140 may cause shift problems in the winter. Is you line of thinking that the type F helps the clutch plates disengage due to oil windage and therefore less clunk shifting into first?
Look in your owners manual. It recommends Formula+ or Syn3 20W50 Oil.
So I would think the Amsoil 20W50 V-twin would be fine for it. I just switched back to Amsoil from Mobil 1 I'm still using Redline Heavy Shockproof in the tranny. Amsoil 20W50 everywhere else. IMO, I think ATF is too light for the primary, Plus if you overheat ATF it ruins it. These engines do get hot!
So I would think the Amsoil 20W50 V-twin would be fine for it. I just switched back to Amsoil from Mobil 1 I'm still using Redline Heavy Shockproof in the tranny. Amsoil 20W50 everywhere else. IMO, I think ATF is too light for the primary, Plus if you overheat ATF it ruins it. These engines do get hot!
I just read an article by Joe Minton in the June issue of American Rider about big twin clutches. In it he says that ATF is the best for smooth shifts but worst for your wallet. Clutch wear is not a problem but decreased chain and sprocket life are. He also says gear oil is to thick and causes the plates to stick. So a compromise like Formula + is best in the long run.
FWIW, Formula+ is gear oil. I'm not sure of the weight, but that's what it is.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 38,537
Likes: 6,412
From: Honah Lee
Chain life
Chain and sprockets are rather rugged. Mine were over .05 out of line for 10K before I caught it and did not appear to hurt them. As far as ATF type F , My concern is the open running bearing that the transmission shaft runs on when it comes thru back side of inner primary cover. The inner race on most Harleys is the shaft and this has been a problem for some. (not talking about the clutch basket hub bearing)
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,788
Likes: 4
From: Here
Chain and sprockets are rather rugged. Mine were over .05 out of line for 10K before I caught it and did not appear to hurt them. As far as ATF type F , My concern is the open running bearing that the transmission shaft runs on when it comes thru back side of inner primary cover. The inner race on most Harleys is the shaft and this has been a problem for some. (not talking about the clutch basket hub bearing)
Just to further explain my rationalization.... I figure automatic transmissions have electronics, kevlar clutch discs, and bearings. Transfer cases have chains and bearings in them. My car has full time all wheel drive and has ATF in the transfer case with over 100k miles on it. I realize this isn't exactly apples to apples, but it's in the same ball park and I'm just not that concerned about the ATF providing adequate lubrication.
Last edited by 07RoadHawg; Jul 14, 2010 at 07:51 PM.
Account Retired
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,245
Likes: 12
From: Here
Yes the engines do get hot, but what does that have to do with the primary fluid? Separate reservoir and all.... Slipping the clutch a ton would get the primary fluid overly hot.
The Primary is bolted to the engine. you don't think heat is transmitted through the entire area. Heat will transfer through metal casings and the entire unit get's pretty hot.
The Primary is bolted to the engine. you don't think heat is transmitted through the entire area. Heat will transfer through metal casings and the entire unit get's pretty hot.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,788
Likes: 4
From: Here
Sure there is a little heat transfer, but minimal especially with all the airflow. You think it's enough to burn ATF?
Road Master
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 5
From: In the north
Look in your owners manual. It recommends Formula+ or Syn3 20W50 Oil.
So I would think the Amsoil 20W50 V-twin would be fine for it. I just switched back to Amsoil from Mobil 1 I'm still using Redline Heavy Shockproof in the tranny. Amsoil 20W50 everywhere else. IMO, I think ATF is too light for the primary, Plus if you overheat ATF it ruins it. These engines do get hot!
So I would think the Amsoil 20W50 V-twin would be fine for it. I just switched back to Amsoil from Mobil 1 I'm still using Redline Heavy Shockproof in the tranny. Amsoil 20W50 everywhere else. IMO, I think ATF is too light for the primary, Plus if you overheat ATF it ruins it. These engines do get hot!
ATF has been used for years in automatic transmissions, manual transmissions and transfercases. If it can properly lube all these then it is more then good enough for the primary, well actually better because of the clutch discs in the primary.
I looked at the formula + fluid. Not very heavy stuff.
I did the Syn3 thing for the first two changes. That stuff is about as good as horse **** in my opinion. My trans clunked baddly. Clutch operation was less then optimum. and once the motor warmed up it had very little pressure and the top end started sounding like a singer sewing machine.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 38,537
Likes: 6,412
From: Honah Lee
This is what RK4ME found
Here's what I found when I decided to use Mobil 1 in my RK.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...T_Primary.aspx
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...T_Primary.aspx
Ask Mobil
ATF Choices for a Harley-Davidson FLHT PrimaryAsk Your Stickiest Question. . . Or ask us something you’ve always wanted to know about using our products. We’ll sort through all the submissions and present the best questions to our automotive experts. We'll share the questions and their answers here.
Question: ATF Choices for a Harley-Davidson FLHT PrimaryI have been told that many Harley owners use Type F (Ford) ATF in their primaries, for one thing to make it easier to find neutral. I have some Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF Multi-Vehicle Formula that I was thinking about putting in my FLHT primary, but the back label states that it's not recommended for Type F applications. I don't want to put it in my primary if it has a lot of friction modifiers in it because I don't want to cause clutch slippage. What are your thoughts on using this ATF in a Harley primary? Thanks.-- Ken Carpenter, Buford, GA
Answer: Although an ATF may work, we suggest shying away from using it due to the low viscosity of ATFs and the possibility of premature chain wear and/or noise. We recommend Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 for Harley primary transfer cases. Alternatively, one could go with Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50.
Last edited by Jackie Paper; Jul 14, 2010 at 11:12 PM.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 56,052
Likes: 88,344
From: Western South Dakota
I've been using this:
Manufacturer's Part #: KH-C80
Klotz V-Twin Primary Case Lubricant Quart
KlotzŽ American V-Twin Synthetic TechniPlateŽ Primary Chain Case Lubricant is custom formulated for the Harley DavidsonŽ Big Twin Models. Exceeds all warranty requirements for Harley DavidsonŽ engines. Use of this lubricant provides certified warranty compliance and protection. Penetrates deep into chain rollers to loosen stiff links and extend chain and sprocket life.
Price: $13.60
Manufacturer's Part #: KH-C80
Klotz V-Twin Primary Case Lubricant Quart
KlotzŽ American V-Twin Synthetic TechniPlateŽ Primary Chain Case Lubricant is custom formulated for the Harley DavidsonŽ Big Twin Models. Exceeds all warranty requirements for Harley DavidsonŽ engines. Use of this lubricant provides certified warranty compliance and protection. Penetrates deep into chain rollers to loosen stiff links and extend chain and sprocket life.
Price: $13.60
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