Problem with stage I, input please
Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 285
Likes: 1
From: Southern Illinois
Problem with stage I, input please
About 200 mile now on stage I, monster rounds, big sucker, dealer download.
Seems some people have to learn the hard way crossed my fingers and hoped for the best.
What I got was less than what I had stock. When I skin the go ahead back the 96" pulls strong like before till I get to 70 mph then it starts surging. Starts in 5th and gets bad in 6th. Top end falls on its face, lost about 5mph from stock.
I am hoping its just the 98 degrees air temp, or maybe a better set of plugs.
Before I take it back to the dealer and get that duh I dont know answer I would like to find out from you guys what has happened.
Please help so I dont get the runaround just in case there is something that do or say that will help.
Seems some people have to learn the hard way crossed my fingers and hoped for the best.
What I got was less than what I had stock. When I skin the go ahead back the 96" pulls strong like before till I get to 70 mph then it starts surging. Starts in 5th and gets bad in 6th. Top end falls on its face, lost about 5mph from stock.
I am hoping its just the 98 degrees air temp, or maybe a better set of plugs.
Before I take it back to the dealer and get that duh I dont know answer I would like to find out from you guys what has happened.
Please help so I dont get the runaround just in case there is something that do or say that will help.
Road Captain
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 718
Likes: 1
From: Panama City, FL
All the Stg 1 download does is change the timing slightly ("torque smoothing") and returns the AFR back to the EPA mandated 14.6 AFR.
So basically, you're engine is running very lean, and is starving for fuel. If you don't want an EFI module...get the Nightriders like I did. Cost is about $100+ shipping, cools the engine, and gets the AFR down to 13.8 which is the "sweet" spot for most newer 96" motors.
Please remember..the dealer will try to sell you anything they can to appease you...but you're AFR will never change from 14.6 because of the EPA rules Harley is bound to.
I hope this helps...and good luck.
So basically, you're engine is running very lean, and is starving for fuel. If you don't want an EFI module...get the Nightriders like I did. Cost is about $100+ shipping, cools the engine, and gets the AFR down to 13.8 which is the "sweet" spot for most newer 96" motors.
Please remember..the dealer will try to sell you anything they can to appease you...but you're AFR will never change from 14.6 because of the EPA rules Harley is bound to.
I hope this helps...and good luck.
Last edited by dohadex; Aug 12, 2010 at 12:41 AM.
Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 285
Likes: 1
From: Southern Illinois
All the Stg 1 download does is change the timing slightly ("torque smoothing") and returns the AFR back to the EPA mandated 14.6 AFR.
So basically, you're engine is running very lean, and is starving for fuel. If you don't want an EFI module...get the Nightriders like I did. Cost is about $100+ shipping, cools the engine, and gets the AFR down to 13.8 which is the "sweet" spot for most newer 96" motors.
Please remember..the dealer will try to sell you anything they can to appease you...but you're AFR will never change from 14.6 because of the EPA rules Harley is bound to.
I hope this helps...and good luck.
So basically, you're engine is running very lean, and is starving for fuel. If you don't want an EFI module...get the Nightriders like I did. Cost is about $100+ shipping, cools the engine, and gets the AFR down to 13.8 which is the "sweet" spot for most newer 96" motors.
Please remember..the dealer will try to sell you anything they can to appease you...but you're AFR will never change from 14.6 because of the EPA rules Harley is bound to.
I hope this helps...and good luck.
Please tell me more about this Nightriders. Never heard of it.
Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 285
Likes: 1
From: Southern Illinois
I need the simply plug an play stuff since I'm not so techno savy when it comes to EFI, AFR, iexd. And it would seem that few if any people around my neighbor hood have this ability. Not loaded with cash so I have to do this myself, and yes I am in need of great input from the best you have to offer. Thanks
Cruiser
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 126
Likes: 1
Stock 96 Cam
Originally Posted by dohadex 
All the Stg 1 download does is change the timing slightly ("torque smoothing") and returns the AFR back to the EPA mandated 14.6 AFR.
So basically, you're engine is running very lean, and is starving for fuel. If you don't want an EFI module...get the Nightriders like I did. Cost is about $100+ shipping, cools the engine, and gets the AFR down to 13.8 which is the "sweet" spot for most newer 96" motors.
Please remember..the dealer will try to sell you anything they can to appease you...but you're AFR will never change from 14.6 because of the EPA rules Harley is bound to.
I hope this helps...and good luck.
I've asked throughout various threads on these forums about how to maximize the potential of a stock 96 motor, and have gotten some helpful opinions, but I still have questions to help me better understand a 96 as a "keeper" instead of a barely tolerable default Harley powerplant that must be upgraded or replaced before any useful enjoyment ensues. Don't get me wrong...This is My Bike! I Love My Bike! There are many like it but this one is mine (referencing Full Metal Jacket.)
So I'll ask you folks who may know in terms of lift and duration, etc.a few questions: If, for example, the SE 255 is the drop in cam to shift the torque curve lower in the rev band, does the stock cam have a "market model number" like 255 or 204? How does the stock cam conspire with other EPA mandated components and settings in a stock 96 to give any kind of respectable spread of power to make anybody wanna buy a new Harley? What does the stock cam really do for you (or more importantly, HD to satisfy EPA regs?) What is the torque curve of the stock cam? Does the stock cam have any benefit over SE 255s or Andrews, et al in a stock 96, especially once AFR is sorted out via Nightrider, SERT, or PCV, and intake and exhaust, or should I just resolve to get the hell rid of said cam if I have hope of ever being happy with a 96? I'm not just bitching rhetoric, I'm looking for technical enlightenment.
Given how much parts and labor's involved to do a cam switch, intake, exhaust, fuel module leading to inevitable yearning for further upgrades, do I just save up and fast forward to a SE120R?
Thanks for any expert info you guys have.
John
All the Stg 1 download does is change the timing slightly ("torque smoothing") and returns the AFR back to the EPA mandated 14.6 AFR.
So basically, you're engine is running very lean, and is starving for fuel. If you don't want an EFI module...get the Nightriders like I did. Cost is about $100+ shipping, cools the engine, and gets the AFR down to 13.8 which is the "sweet" spot for most newer 96" motors.
Please remember..the dealer will try to sell you anything they can to appease you...but you're AFR will never change from 14.6 because of the EPA rules Harley is bound to.
I hope this helps...and good luck.
I've asked throughout various threads on these forums about how to maximize the potential of a stock 96 motor, and have gotten some helpful opinions, but I still have questions to help me better understand a 96 as a "keeper" instead of a barely tolerable default Harley powerplant that must be upgraded or replaced before any useful enjoyment ensues. Don't get me wrong...This is My Bike! I Love My Bike! There are many like it but this one is mine (referencing Full Metal Jacket.)
So I'll ask you folks who may know in terms of lift and duration, etc.a few questions: If, for example, the SE 255 is the drop in cam to shift the torque curve lower in the rev band, does the stock cam have a "market model number" like 255 or 204? How does the stock cam conspire with other EPA mandated components and settings in a stock 96 to give any kind of respectable spread of power to make anybody wanna buy a new Harley? What does the stock cam really do for you (or more importantly, HD to satisfy EPA regs?) What is the torque curve of the stock cam? Does the stock cam have any benefit over SE 255s or Andrews, et al in a stock 96, especially once AFR is sorted out via Nightrider, SERT, or PCV, and intake and exhaust, or should I just resolve to get the hell rid of said cam if I have hope of ever being happy with a 96? I'm not just bitching rhetoric, I'm looking for technical enlightenment.
Given how much parts and labor's involved to do a cam switch, intake, exhaust, fuel module leading to inevitable yearning for further upgrades, do I just save up and fast forward to a SE120R?
Thanks for any expert info you guys have.
John
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,918
Likes: 3,715
From: Hill Country, TX
About 200 mile now on stage I, monster rounds, big sucker, dealer download.
Seems some people have to learn the hard way crossed my fingers and hoped for the best.
What I got was less than what I had stock. When I skin the go ahead back the 96" pulls strong like before till I get to 70 mph then it starts surging. Starts in 5th and gets bad in 6th. Top end falls on its face, lost about 5mph from stock.
I am hoping its just the 98 degrees air temp, or maybe a better set of plugs.
Before I take it back to the dealer and get that duh I dont know answer I would like to find out from you guys what has happened.
Please help so I dont get the runaround just in case there is something that do or say that will help.
Seems some people have to learn the hard way crossed my fingers and hoped for the best.
What I got was less than what I had stock. When I skin the go ahead back the 96" pulls strong like before till I get to 70 mph then it starts surging. Starts in 5th and gets bad in 6th. Top end falls on its face, lost about 5mph from stock.
I am hoping its just the 98 degrees air temp, or maybe a better set of plugs.
Before I take it back to the dealer and get that duh I dont know answer I would like to find out from you guys what has happened.
Please help so I dont get the runaround just in case there is something that do or say that will help.
I'm assuming that your monster rounds are Vance & Hines. What is your headpipe? If you're running a stock headpipe with the Cat, shitcan it for some Vance & Hines Power Duals or True Duals. While not cheap, they are a perfect match for your monster rounds.
Next, you need some kind of fuel management system on your scoot. V&H Fuelpak will do the trick, and is very easy to install. If you do these two things, your bike will run a whole lot better and cooler.
The dealer download is bullshit, and it's too bad you got talked into it. Those guys will do anything for a buck.
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Novice
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 15
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Have an '09 Ultra, basically the same set-up as you, but today I'm putting the Power-Duel headpipes on. I first did a V&H's basic slip-on, not much different. Then I did their H/F a/c and noticed a big difference. Bike was just smoother to ride...but I guess without a download the bike ran so hot I actually took the chrome off of the pipes. Came off like sheets of tissue paper. Some said bad chrome, maybe, but the heat is what did it I think. So warranty on the pipes, and then Stage 1 from HD. Better but not what I wanted. So went with Monster Ovals and added the V&H Fuel-Pak. Although not the most flexable tuner it made a huge difference. Less heat, more power etc. They have values that can overide the HD download depending on what you put on ie: a/c, or slip-ons, headers or any combination of. Will post when I get the headers on let you know. Hope this helps.
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Advanced
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Bronson is right about the downloads- have the bike dyno'd and get a race tuner. A good dyno dude will be able to eradicate the surging. I use the new hd race tuner and there's no surging issues caused. Hope this helps
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,951
Likes: 6
From: Kingman, AZ
My 08 bought with slip-ons, A/C stg 1 and added xieds. Ran well, wanted more so added true duals and PCV. Runs real well now but have Auto Tune and SE255 cams on the bench for winter install.
Wife's 07 bought used and no engine/EFI upgrades whatsoever. Added slip-ons for sound more then anything and it ........runs great.
go figure.
Wife's 07 bought used and no engine/EFI upgrades whatsoever. Added slip-ons for sound more then anything and it ........runs great.
go figure.