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Old Jul 16, 2011 | 09:39 PM
  #51  
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LastHalf
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From: Atlantic Canada
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Originally Posted by AlCherry
I've been riding for the best part of 43 years, all Harleys. It took me 4 years of riding on my '07 to figure it out. 6th gear is useless. Period. At least for my style of riding.
I really thought plugging it into 6th and cruising at 70 mph @ 2450 rpm was great. Not so. As I said in a previous thread, my '07 was the most efficient in 5th at 2800 rpm on the highway. I rode like this for the best part of 3000 miles on our western swing last month. The oil temp was 25 deg cooler (230), and the fuel economy was 45mpg to 51mpg vs 36 to 40 mpg and 250-260 deg. Thus, for my style of riding, I would need to go 76+mph to keep it in that RPM range where it would pull hills and pass other vehicles. 6th gear will cause more problems than its worth, at least for me.
Here is how the gear changes are spelled out in the owners manual. I think they are wrong.
First to second
15
Second to third
25
Third to fourth
35
Fourth to fifth
45
Fifth to sixth
55

It is hard to have another gear there and not shift into it. You really want to do it. Fill your tank and go out and run it out on the highway, not ever shifting into 6th. You'll see what I mean.
Thanks for an incredibly enlightening post - especially your fuel mileage and oil temp comparison between running 2450 and 2800 rpm at 70 mph depending on if you were in 6th or 5th, respectively. I was getting 45 mpg CDN so perhaps in 5th I can anticipate a similar 10 mpg improvement, or at the least it won`t hurt mileage. Wow. Same for oil temps, that`s good as cooler oil should mean a cooler engine and maybe the differnce between detonation and no detonation, even without an oil cooler. Even more shocking is the operator`s manual stating to shift into 6th at 55 mph or 90 kph. That makes me feel a LOT better as I felt really stupid not having a manual, when if common wisdom here is to use 6th for 120+ it must say so in the manual which had I read I would be $2,000 richer. But it seems had I bought the manual, I would have done the exact same thing without the help of hdforums.com at the time. Like I said I bought the bike used and started my trip immediately so didn`t have a computer to check things out on other than stopping at libraries en route. Yes the manual must be wrong, though they may have corrected that for 2008 and later, they also apparently changed the ratio to make 6th more usable (at 110 kph) so its possible they realized the problem after 2007 and changed it in the manual. Anyway, good stuff to know.
 
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Old Jul 16, 2011 | 11:26 PM
  #52  
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Silverback2011
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From: Alberta, Canada
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On the highway I run at 110 kph which is 68 mph, 6th gear seems ok at that speed running at 2500 rpm. Where I live it is mainly small rolling hills so even with the cruise on 6th gear is still good. When I get down to 100 kph or 62 mph I would say that the engine is lugging a bit in 6th gear.
 
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Old Jul 17, 2011 | 05:40 AM
  #53  
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carpetride
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From: florida swamp
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Originally Posted by LastHalf
Great article that I`ll have to read fully. Skimming answered at least one question I had - why the DET sensor didn`t prevent my pinging. It`s because my pinging must have been from hot spots, which retarded timing won`t affect. It may sense the detonation and retard the timing, but it doesn`t stop the pinging. We sure can`t rely on that thing then! I was actually considering having my timing retarded as well as a permanently richer fuel map if there is such a thing, at the dealer, but it sounds like with Harley spark plugs the stock DET sensor should address the timing and I should concentrate on a fuel controller as you and others suggested. Even if I shouldn`t need to on a stock bike, it is what it is and no Harley sure won`t care what I do or fix it for me. In fact they`ll be quite happy to keep selling pistons and cylinders.

The article says its hard on rods too, but I`ll assume if the dealer felt the rod or anything else sustained damage, they would have ordered one up too.
I don't think your motor has a DET sensor. I could be wrong but I have never seen it mentioned for Harleys.
BTW, I'm assuming you are using premium gas.
 

Last edited by carpetride; Jul 17, 2011 at 05:44 AM.
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Old Jul 17, 2011 | 09:24 AM
  #54  
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Buddy WMC
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From: S.W. Florida
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Been an interesting thread. That being said, has anyone thought about dropping the trans pulley from 32T to a 30T like HD did on our 2011 Trike? Makes 6th gear much more usable and gets the whole gear ratios in the 6 speed much better. Just a thought for conversational purposes even though it costs money to change the pulley. Most of the 2009-2010 Tri-Glide owners have already made this swap and a very happy if you visit our section.
 
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Old Jul 17, 2011 | 09:33 AM
  #55  
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Buddy WMC
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From: S.W. Florida
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Been an interesting thread. That being said, has anyone thought about dropping the trans pulley from 32T to a 30T like HD did on our 2011 Trike? Makes 6th gear much more usable and gets the whole gear ratios in the 6 speed much better. Just a thought for conversational purposes even though it costs money to change the pulley. Most of the 2009-2010 Tri-Glide owners have already made this swap and are very happy. The tune is also very important regarding heat and EITMS issues. Come visit our Tri-Glide forum.
 

Last edited by Buddy WMC; Jul 17, 2011 at 09:35 AM.
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Old Jul 17, 2011 | 10:02 AM
  #56  
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Rat1
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From: In the north
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I spend most of my time above 3000 rpm un less I am cruising on flat level ground at 65 mph.

Lugging the motor or pulling it hard below 2500 rpm, leads to increased cylinder temps which leads to predetination, ping etc.

These motors will happily rev to above 5000 rpm and not even think twice about it. It is much harder on the motor to short shift it keeping below 3000 rpm then it is to let it sing a little.
 
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Old Jul 17, 2011 | 10:06 AM
  #57  
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rg_dave
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From: Cypress, TX
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Above 2500 and you're ok usually. I usually keep it 3000 an above. I do use 6th a lot but we cruise above 80 on open roads often. Depends on how you ride. Back and forth to work on the HOV I usually don't get to go above 70 due to traffic so I don't use 6th.
 
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Old Jul 17, 2011 | 10:13 AM
  #58  
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NYBagger92
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From: LI, and New York, NY -- N 40 44.985 W 73 00.910
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Originally Posted by todd-67
2500 to 3000 when cruising. Ripping through the gears is different. The only time I short shift the bike is when trying not to wake people up late at night or early in the am.

same here...
bike sounds, feels and pulls best over 2800.

i leave for work at 11pm, and actually respect a few of my neighbors.
 
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Old Jul 17, 2011 | 03:45 PM
  #59  
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LastHalf
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From: Atlantic Canada
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Originally Posted by Silverback2011
On the highway I run at 110 kph which is 68 mph, 6th gear seems ok at that speed running at 2500 rpm. Where I live it is mainly small rolling hills so even with the cruise on 6th gear is still good. When I get down to 100 kph or 62 mph I would say that the engine is lugging a bit in 6th gear.
I like the colour of your bike.....very refreshing.

I just heard from a possibly questionable source that 09`s and up had gearing changed so 6th is more usable at 110 kph. Mine`s an 08 though so I simply will hardly ever use it. One concern I almost forgot about is that my 5th gear is noisier than 6th and may be one of the reasons I had for avoiding it. That`ll suck now that I think of it droning on for 20,000 km. Anyway by the sounds of it 6th at 110 kph should be okay if its at 2500 rpm, and that may be because yours is presumably a 2009 or newer, I was dazzled by your paint job and didn`t notice. Mine at 110 would be under 2500 I`m pretty sure so I can`t use it there.
 
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Old Jul 17, 2011 | 03:54 PM
  #60  
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LastHalf
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From: Atlantic Canada
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Originally Posted by carpetride
I don't think your motor has a DET sensor. I could be wrong but I have never seen it mentioned for Harleys.
BTW, I'm assuming you are using premium gas.
Yes I read about it while researching spark plugs while troubleshooting my bike before I knew I`d blown my piston in half (it still turned over without drama, would start, idle and run without the air filter but did have white/blue smoke coming out the lead cylinder`s pipe but I thought a valve was gone...not the whole piston!). Anyway I saw there that Harley`s detonation sensor can only work with Harley`s standar plug and not their fancy schmancy performance ones nevermind NGK or Splitfires. Not sure about Champions which were all that were available here, but all my pinging happened with the Harley plugs in there and the system didn`t stop the pinging even if it was trying to by retarding the ignition. Someone else on here mentioned the detonation sensor as well, on Harleys at least if not on an 08 ElectraGlide, saying it won`t help if the detonation is caused by hot spots but that I need more fuel (remap or controller). If nothing else I`m meeting a hell of a lot of people and learning a lot!

And yes I`m using premium gas but I also heard regular can be better if you by the octane booster becuase in these high gas price times people aren`t buying premium so it gets old so better with boosted fresh regular. I heard this from at least one dealer as well as someone on here. In the US where premium is not near as much vs regular, I just got premium all the time as the booster ain`t cheap if you add the specified amount. But in Canada I`d tend to use regular with booster and if it pinged I`d try premium but it made no difference just like running it in 5th made no difference.
 
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