Using the PCV as an example, what ECU feature is disabled besides use of the stock O2 sensors? If you mean PCV will not allow you to delve into the ECU tables, this is true.

The AT-100 will not auto-tune, thus won't work as a closed-loop device, as it can't interface with the ECU. This is a limitation of the ECU, not PV, and the PV has no link to the ECU while the bike is running, except displaying or logging J1850 and PV information that can be shown on the display if desired. AT-100 Pro (known as Auto-Tune with the PCV) will data-log to the PV, and using software now in development it will create a new tune that can be flashed to the ECU after the engine is shut-down.

 

The ecu can use broadbands. It is being done by Rev Performance.

 

and others. Superchips is going to be broadband.

 

Well, I confess I was a business major and have no formal education in engineering, so what little I know is self-acquired. I have a lot to learn and am very willing to fill the cognitive gaps.

Never tried it, but it would definitely work with AT installed.

You don't know how much of a pain it really is 'til you endure S. LA during the summer months.

I bought a $250 netbook with SSD (no hard-drive) to carry on trips. With no hard-drive and very few moving parts there is less worry about the bike shaking it to death. So far it has survived two years of abuse.

I haven't tried data-logging with the PV yet, but it is very easy. While the gauges are displayed you can hit "Start" and, you guessed it, the data-logging starts. Very convenient. The resulting log can then be downloaded from the PV to the computer via WinPV software, then viewed in Excel.

So a tune in Denver would not be optimal for use in LA? Won't MAP compensate?

Actually, there's a big difference. It does run in closed-loop, writing trims at 50x/sec. in real-time and utilized by the PCV on the fly. If the base-map value is 20 in a given cell with a trim value of -7 dictated by AT it will provide 13% more fuel than the ECU dictates, and the trim value is constantly changing based on the feedback from the WB O2 sensors. The PCV has its own features that aren't available with any flash-based tuner, AFAIK, like the ability to switch between two maps on the fly (many more with the optional LCD-200 display unit), offsets tied to engine temperature, gears, speeds, turbo boost, etc.--just to name a few. Obviously, among the various tuners on the market, which features are more important depends on the needs of the rider.

I haven't wrapped my head around all of this just yet, but I understand the upcoming software for the AT-100 Pro will take the data-logs produced by AT100 and make changes to the VE, AFR, and perhaps other tables automatically when the upcoming software is run. OTOH it definitely will not do so in real time by interfacing with the ECU, as it is not an auto-tune device with PV like it is with the PCV.

I wouldn't call it flashy, but does seem ergonomic and functional. After all, if I can more-or-less figure it out in a few days it must not be too esoteric. There are more areas that are not readily discernible to the non-engineering mind than with the PCV software, which was very user-friendly. I've figured most of it out since receiving the PV kit last Saturday, but there's still quite a bit to learn.

I considered T'Max several years ago, but decided against it because of its lack of knock-sensing, and I wasn't keen on replacing the ECU. Besides that, quite a few were complaining about detonation and other problems, but I understand the new TBW versions do have knock-sensing included. I have not heard much about the newer units either way, but no bad feedback at all. One reliable source told me it was quite competent, though.

I could easily live with the stock closed-loop system now that I have more control over it. If I didn't already have the WB sensors and AT modules already installed and ready to connect to the PV, once that functionality is available, I might re-install the NB O2 sensors and work with them. I could connect the AT-100 to the PV now with some jury-rigging, which would give me more gauge data to choose from like AFRs, but I'll just wait 'til DJ comes out with the appropriate and approved cabling and software. No hurry on that.

 

This is the main reason for the NB sensors, IMO, and I don't think HD would even use them if emissions regulations didn't force the issue.

I'd like to make the following points on the importance of the NB O2 sensors. First, they only work at idle and only slightly above the cruise range, which is ~50% TP (throttle-position) and below and ~3000 RPM and below. Thus, above that point you are in open-loop mode and the stock O2 sensors do not work.

I've used both the PCIII and PCV, both basic and with Auto-Tune for the latter, and always ran full open-loop until I upgraded to Auto-Tune. Important factors in a well-tuned cruise-range include smooth and cool running; a lack of flat-spots, surging, or hesitation in transitions (roll-on); and good gas mileage. I never had any performance issues when running full open-loop and my mileage was always in the upper 40's to as high as 50 mpg on the backroads. Now, I would like for someone to explain what I was missing by eliminating the stock O2 sensors. To say that they are even a minor factor in a well-tuned, good-running bike is simply unfounded, IMO.

 

Revolution EMS uses the Wideband sensors along with a WB controller. They have re-written the ECM code and use completely different O2 strategies than the conventional Delphi ECM, this is the only product currently on the market that offers live-real time wideband tuning with the Delphi ECM.


The Superchips tuner is still in development, I met with them a few weeks back. Superchips will offer a wideband option however it is not live on the fly like the Rev EMS.

 

Instead of "ECU" I guess I should've qualified it by saying "stock ECU." The Rev Performance device doesn't use a stock ECU configuration. Man, the tuner market is changing like the weather! This is good for the consumer if he can keep up with the changes.

 

Hey Guys i am new to the forum. i have read this thread and many more and i still cant see a solution for my problem. while living in Dubai a couple of years ago, i bought new 2010 FXDWG. on a trip to the states i picked up the SE air filter and V&H big radius exhaust from HD Seattle. they also sold me a PCV to go along with it. after the install, the bike ran perfect using Dynojets provided maps without any modifications (No Dyno Tuners in the area). i recently got a job in Egypt and took my bike along with me, ever since it has been running like crap, most recently stalls after a few minutes of ideling. i changed the fuel filter (1500 Miles) thinking i got some dirt in there, cleaned my airfilter, checked the spark plugs..nothing. i hooked up the stock O2 sensors to try it out (Closed loop with the PCV) and the problem went away, however the bike is running like crap and the exhaust is popping and crackeling all over the place. Dealership says i gotta install a SERT (which costs 750USD here) and i dont think they have a dyno to tune it peroperly. Any suggestions?

 

check your connections to the pc make sure they are not loose or corroded.