Help! Intermediate backfiring and missing
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 99
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From: SW Missouri
Help! Intermediate backfiring and missing
My bike has begun to backfire and miss as I begin to apply throttle from a start and when I apply more throttle under a load condition.. sometimes. It only does this when hot after it has run a long time. I run fuel from different sources, so I don't thing that is the problem. What's worst is it is intermediate. I have checked my plugs and they're normal. I tried tightening my battery connections. When the engine isn't hot there's no problem, so this makes it more difficult to find the problem. I first noticed the problem after getting stuck in traffic in 95 degree temps last Saturday. The engine kicked in and out of the engine heat management like it should, and showed no problem as I cleared the traffic and ran another 2 miles. When I exited the freeway and pulled away from the light felt the lack of power and a couple of backfires. The engine then smooth out and ran fine. I stopped for a hour or so and felt of small miss or two just as I was entering the freeway. I cranked down on it and the engine ran fine each time I did this, so I thought maybe it had loaded up or something when it got hot using the heat management for 45 minutes.
It have checked the ECM for error codes and there are none. The problem does appear to be temperature related issue, but I can't determine if it is rpm, load, throttle position, or what is failing under these conditions.
To make matters worst, I'm away from home on a road trip. Although the problem is just a nuisance right now and hasn't put me roadside, I fear the worst is yet to come.
Maybe if something does fail completely, it will generate an error code. I'm at a crossroad of whether I should head back home or continue this road trip and play it out.
Unless I get a good mechanic at a stealer shop, I could spend a fortune finding this problem.
Any ideas? Anyone?
It have checked the ECM for error codes and there are none. The problem does appear to be temperature related issue, but I can't determine if it is rpm, load, throttle position, or what is failing under these conditions.
To make matters worst, I'm away from home on a road trip. Although the problem is just a nuisance right now and hasn't put me roadside, I fear the worst is yet to come.
Maybe if something does fail completely, it will generate an error code. I'm at a crossroad of whether I should head back home or continue this road trip and play it out.
Unless I get a good mechanic at a stealer shop, I could spend a fortune finding this problem.
Any ideas? Anyone?
Road Master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,218
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From: Yakima WA
Watching this one with some interest. Similar problem off and on with my 2010 Street Glide. In my case was usually occuring around 3000 to 3200 rpm as I rolled into the throttle. Happened once in a while when running at similar rpm with the cruise on. Changed the spark plugs and problem went away for the most part. Still once on rare occasion as I roll into the throttle it pops slightly.
I was wondering yesterday if this could be related to the throttle by wire sensor in the grip?
Will be curious how this plays out for you..
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 99
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From: SW Missouri
Update to my probelm
I did two things. One was to disable the heat management. I rode it and although the engine wasn't as hot as it needed to be in order to made an accurate comparison, it still had some missing and spurting. It wasn't as bad, but still there.
As a last resort, I added about 3 ounces of Sea Foam fuel treatment and ran the bike for a few minutes. I rode almost 400 miles yesterday under the same conditions that seemed to cause the problem. I'm happy to report I had NO miss. NO backfires. NO problems at all under any conditions.
I'm hoping it was an injector or possibly throttle body issue and the Sea Foam cleaned it. I've used this product in all my gas powered equipment that begins to have issues cranking or running with positive results in most cases.
I wish I could give more exact explanation, but I'm going assume and hope the problem has been corrected.
I have a few thousand miles ahead of me on this trip, so time will tell and I'll update if I encounter more problems.
As a last resort, I added about 3 ounces of Sea Foam fuel treatment and ran the bike for a few minutes. I rode almost 400 miles yesterday under the same conditions that seemed to cause the problem. I'm happy to report I had NO miss. NO backfires. NO problems at all under any conditions.
I'm hoping it was an injector or possibly throttle body issue and the Sea Foam cleaned it. I've used this product in all my gas powered equipment that begins to have issues cranking or running with positive results in most cases.
I wish I could give more exact explanation, but I'm going assume and hope the problem has been corrected.
I have a few thousand miles ahead of me on this trip, so time will tell and I'll update if I encounter more problems.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 3
From: NYC
if this only occurs on a hot day during stop and go, and you have a stage 1, pull the egg shaped intake cover off and compare the results.
during stop and go on a hot day, egg cover on a stage one, sucks eng heated hot air off the engine, ecm leans mixture, intake of hot air, rised eng temp even more, mixture is leaned out even more, etc. when you pull out, low or no power, sputter, choking etc, as you move forward, ambient air is sucked in which is cooler, ecm finally makes a correction, all is well again. removing the cover allows more ambient air to be sucked in that is less directly heated by the engine.
during stop and go on a hot day, egg cover on a stage one, sucks eng heated hot air off the engine, ecm leans mixture, intake of hot air, rised eng temp even more, mixture is leaned out even more, etc. when you pull out, low or no power, sputter, choking etc, as you move forward, ambient air is sucked in which is cooler, ecm finally makes a correction, all is well again. removing the cover allows more ambient air to be sucked in that is less directly heated by the engine.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
I've been diagnosing a similar and very frustrating problem for over a year, which would go away repeatedly only to rear its ugly head again later. Changing plugs fixed it for a while, repeatedly. Then came the plug wires, different brands of gas, replace fuel hardware inside the tank, etc. All helped for a while, and the intermittence of the
problem has made diagnosis very difficult.
You might want to read this thread where we've been discussing this. Right now my bike is running worse than it ever has and I await a new TPS (throttle-position sensor). Mine is almost assuredly bad, as when it starts acting up the TP values are incorrect, usually 3-10 higher than normal. This affects idle and performance on the road by fooling the ECM into the wrong AFR, spark advance, etc. The OP of that thread has almost the same symptoms as I do.
You might look into the pressure hoses inside the tank, as if cracked or pitted can leak causing a reduction of fuel pressure. I checked mine and it indeed had a leak at the pressure regulator, but replacing the tubes (2), regulator, and tube outside the tank produced only a small amount of improvement.
I'm hoping the TPS is the culprit in my case, and I await a new one due in tomorrow. Will report back when I get more info.
problem has made diagnosis very difficult.
You might want to read this thread where we've been discussing this. Right now my bike is running worse than it ever has and I await a new TPS (throttle-position sensor). Mine is almost assuredly bad, as when it starts acting up the TP values are incorrect, usually 3-10 higher than normal. This affects idle and performance on the road by fooling the ECM into the wrong AFR, spark advance, etc. The OP of that thread has almost the same symptoms as I do.
You might look into the pressure hoses inside the tank, as if cracked or pitted can leak causing a reduction of fuel pressure. I checked mine and it indeed had a leak at the pressure regulator, but replacing the tubes (2), regulator, and tube outside the tank produced only a small amount of improvement.
I'm hoping the TPS is the culprit in my case, and I await a new one due in tomorrow. Will report back when I get more info.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 9
From: North Carolina
you have a lean condition, could be from dirty injectors, or too much heat. Like said above if the intake is sucking in hot air, I reccomend pull A/C cover and ride, then add some seafoam to see if you got a dirty injector.
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Joined: Mar 2009
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From: SW Missouri
We did another 400 miles yesterday across Kansas to Pueblo, CO. My bike is running it's *** off. Not even a burp. Temps yesterday were well above 100 degrees and I'm not having any problems since the Sea Foam was added.
I replaced my stock Stage I filter last week with a K&N and I did notice my stock filter was saturated with oil. Apparently, I had over filled my engine oil at sometime in the past and got a little blow back. This may have contributed to the problem someplace along the line, but didn't manifest itself until now.
No, I'm not running too lean. The plugs look like there is a good balanced mixture. I have my MasterTune calibration set to run on the rich side and I've been running this file for well over a year.
I'm planning on changing my fuel filter when I return from this trip at which time I will replace the hoses inside the tank.
Unfortunately, I didn't bring my MasterTune cable with me or I would have tried to trap some events when this occurred.
Anyway, thanks for all support. Sorry I did read the tech link first before posting, but I was panicked, since I on a road trip.
ronster
I replaced my stock Stage I filter last week with a K&N and I did notice my stock filter was saturated with oil. Apparently, I had over filled my engine oil at sometime in the past and got a little blow back. This may have contributed to the problem someplace along the line, but didn't manifest itself until now.
No, I'm not running too lean. The plugs look like there is a good balanced mixture. I have my MasterTune calibration set to run on the rich side and I've been running this file for well over a year.
I'm planning on changing my fuel filter when I return from this trip at which time I will replace the hoses inside the tank.
Unfortunately, I didn't bring my MasterTune cable with me or I would have tried to trap some events when this occurred.
Anyway, thanks for all support. Sorry I did read the tech link first before posting, but I was panicked, since I on a road trip.
ronster
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Joined: Mar 2009
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From: SW Missouri
No more problems after 6,000 miles
I returned from my road trip after 6,000 miles and I'm happy to report no more problems. Not even a single burp. I must assume the Sea-Foam fixed the problem. This is good stuff, but never thought to using it in my bike until now.
I believe I'll include it as part of my routine maintenance.
Now I must go on to my new problem of finding the reason I'm hearing excessive noise coming from my primary side while the engine is running. I noticed this the last 300 or 400 miles of my trip. Sounds like a bearing.
Thanks everyone for all your comments.
Ronster
I believe I'll include it as part of my routine maintenance.
Now I must go on to my new problem of finding the reason I'm hearing excessive noise coming from my primary side while the engine is running. I noticed this the last 300 or 400 miles of my trip. Sounds like a bearing.
Thanks everyone for all your comments.
Ronster
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 56,052
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From: Western South Dakota
How much Sea-Foam did you use per tank and how many tanks did you use it?
If it helped your bike as you say, it must have been the injectors as another poster said I'm thinkin'. Never the less I'm glad you're back to gettin' it on..
One less thing to worry about..
If it helped your bike as you say, it must have been the injectors as another poster said I'm thinkin'. Never the less I'm glad you're back to gettin' it on..
One less thing to worry about..
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 25,292
Likes: 2,427
From: Eastern NE
Sounds like you had some bad fuel & possibly injector gunk - Seafoam's good stuff & I add 1oz./gal every time I fill. You can get away w/4+ cylinders & bad gas, but 1-2 = no way. Glas she straightened out & made your trip home less stressful.