Ceramic Coated Headers
Supporter
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,419
Likes: 89
From: Vermont
So are you saying that a stock 2 into 1 Harley head pipe with the cat removed, and a good 4 inch slip on, will perform better than for the sake of argument,
a stepped 2 into 1 Vance and Hines Pro Pipe. I'm not trying to be sarcastic either. I truly want to know?
a stepped 2 into 1 Vance and Hines Pro Pipe. I'm not trying to be sarcastic either. I truly want to know?
Stepping is usually employed to compensate for poor bends and/or improperly sized primaries and/or collectors. Give me a well-engineered pipe before a less expensive stepped one any day of the week.
Of course, this is on a low-powered Harley V-Twin. Give me a big V-8 flowing massive amounts of air, and stepping the headers becomes worthwhile (assuming that the headers are engineered and flow-tested properly).
Of course, this is on a low-powered Harley V-Twin. Give me a big V-8 flowing massive amounts of air, and stepping the headers becomes worthwhile (assuming that the headers are engineered and flow-tested properly).
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,763
Likes: 2,597
From: san antonio
Stepping is usually employed to compensate for poor bends and/or improperly sized primaries and/or collectors. Give me a well-engineered pipe before a less expensive stepped one any day of the week.
Of course, this is on a low-powered Harley V-Twin. Give me a big V-8 flowing massive amounts of air, and stepping the headers becomes worthwhile (assuming that the headers are engineered and flow-tested properly).
Of course, this is on a low-powered Harley V-Twin. Give me a big V-8 flowing massive amounts of air, and stepping the headers becomes worthwhile (assuming that the headers are engineered and flow-tested properly).
There are very few stepped head pipes for the Harley VTwin; Rinehart being the best IMHO; nothing cheap about RH systems. Much cheaper to mandrel bend the head pipes than step them. Take a look at page 4 of the 2012 SE Performance catalog of the bagger set up for Draggin Bagger racing; stepped header. Look at the cover too; a straight pipe but stepped...................hmmm, no bends.
What would you call a motor with a 4.125" bore and 4..00"/4.375" stroke if not 1/4 of the big V-8 you refer too? I am not an exhaust expert but believe that if stepped head pipes work for a small block chevy, they work for a Harley VTwin. JMHO though, not worth anything to anybody but me.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
That's a comparison of a 2009 (non-cat) Stage 1 bike with the same bike and the Jackpot 2:1:2 head pipe. Everything else is the same, and the runs were done on the same day. Not much of a difference, is there? There's also a chart on Jackpot's website comparing an FLHTK's 103's stock head pipe (with a cat) and the Jackpot 2:1:2 head pipe. There's still not much gain (5hp & 5 ft-lbs).
This is absolutely not a knock on Jamie, Fuel Moto, or Jackpot. They make quality products that I'm happy to use on my motorcycle. What it points to is the fact that the stock head pipe works pretty well, and that the catalytic converter really isn't much (if any) restriction.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
There are very few stepped head pipes for the Harley VTwin; Rinehart being the best IMHO; nothing cheap about RH systems. Much cheaper to mandrel bend the head pipes than step them. Take a look at page 4 of the 2012 SE Performance catalog of the bagger set up for Draggin Bagger racing; stepped header. Look at the cover too; a straight pipe but stepped...................hmmm, no bends.
What would you call a motor with a 4.125" bore and 4..00"/4.375" stroke if not 1/4 of the big V-8 you refer too? I am not an exhaust expert but believe that if stepped head pipes work for a small block chevy, they work for a Harley VTwin. JMHO though, not worth anything to anybody but me.
I'm no wrench and I have not charts, but I did go with the jackpot ceramic coated headers and with SE High Flow and woods cams with the push rod kit. I felt like my 103 was a completely different bike. I also added a thundermax. For me the bike ran sweet. Much quicker, sixth gear a new experience, cooler and way better thottle response. I have heard that they will bring down the heat a bit, but to honest I really could not tell how much. I noticed a difference and they did the trick for me so there is my 2cents
Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, MO
How about differences (if any) between internally coated versus externally coated headers as it relates to heat dissipation?
Does an internally coated header have any performance gains regarding "flow" over an identical header that is externally coated?
Does an internally coated header have any performance gains regarding "flow" over an identical header that is externally coated?
Supporter
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,419
Likes: 89
From: Vermont
Cool stuff, thanks. I currently have my 02 sensors disconnected anyway because I'm running a PCV on a 10 Street Glide. I also run the Pro Pipe and Stage 1 air cleaner. I like the look of the Pro Pipe and all, but I still really like the sound of the Cycle Shack exhaust better than any expensive system I've ever run. I keep coming back to Cycle Shack. I asked because I'm going to have my stock 2-1 head pipe gutted, (it did do a lot to cool the engine down by changing to a catless set up), and trying a Cycle Shack Muffler on this bike as well. I have to say that by removing the stock set up and going catless, I did indeed feel as though I lost something in the low end grunt? But over all the bike seems to run smoother.
Nope, but primarily for one reason. The stock pipe was designed for use with a converter, remove the converter, and you'll have issues with crosstalk with the O2 sensors. I have no direct experience with either the stock 2:1 or the Pro Pipe, so I can't really comment on which one makes more power, but I'll generalize based on the attached dyno chart.
That's a comparison of a 2009 (non-cat) Stage 1 bike with the same bike and the Jackpot 2:1:2 head pipe. Everything else is the same, and the runs were done on the same day. Not much of a difference, is there? There's also a chart on Jackpot's website comparing an FLHTK's 103's stock head pipe (with a cat) and the Jackpot 2:1:2 head pipe. There's still not much gain (5hp & 5 ft-lbs).
This is absolutely not a knock on Jamie, Fuel Moto, or Jackpot. They make quality products that I'm happy to use on my motorcycle. What it points to is the fact that the stock head pipe works pretty well, and that the catalytic converter really isn't much (if any) restriction.
That's a comparison of a 2009 (non-cat) Stage 1 bike with the same bike and the Jackpot 2:1:2 head pipe. Everything else is the same, and the runs were done on the same day. Not much of a difference, is there? There's also a chart on Jackpot's website comparing an FLHTK's 103's stock head pipe (with a cat) and the Jackpot 2:1:2 head pipe. There's still not much gain (5hp & 5 ft-lbs).
This is absolutely not a knock on Jamie, Fuel Moto, or Jackpot. They make quality products that I'm happy to use on my motorcycle. What it points to is the fact that the stock head pipe works pretty well, and that the catalytic converter really isn't much (if any) restriction.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,542
Likes: 2
From: Cocoa Beach, Florida
Mmmmmmmm..... getting stepped pipes or not depends upon however much cash it takes to get some more HP/TQ and however much more HP/TQ you get is a variable. In addition, a CAT doesn't hurt all that much so why worry about it since 2 or 3 more HP isn't much and besides, going to a better pipe only does that much when the engine is stock (4% efficiency improvement, reduced heat, and better sound just isn't important). Okay. Fair-nuff. Everyone has the right to make their own mind up about those issues so...
As for ceramic coating, inside, outside, both, well... it beats me. Anyone want to continue any discussion WRT advantages/disadvantages of various ceramic coating approaches?
As for ceramic coating, inside, outside, both, well... it beats me. Anyone want to continue any discussion WRT advantages/disadvantages of various ceramic coating approaches?
Last edited by RangeRat; Aug 23, 2011 at 08:45 PM.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,403
Likes: 20
From: Indy
I do know that I had the pipes on my drag sled coated , they did the inside , it lowered the RPMs (2 Stroke) and I burned the motor down, because it leaned it out too much, my mistake for not checking .
I don't know if it would do so much on a V twin motor, mine was a 700 triple.
I don't know if it would do so much on a V twin motor, mine was a 700 triple.
Road Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,145
Likes: 98
From: Colorado Springs
Jackpot HTC Stainless Steel headers - ceramic inside & out. http://www.jackpotmufflers.com/
Yeah, like 300 degrees cooler at the pipe!
Since my only first hand knowledge is with double sided ceramic coatings I could only speculate on what only 1 side would be like. I choose not to speculate as there are a number of headers available with coating on both sides.
Putting on true duals may not have been the smartest thing I've done. However, I believe the ceramic coating (inside and out) IS one of the smartest things I've done. Modern Harleys run extremely hot. There is thread after thread on riders asking how to cool 'em down. Ceramic coated head pipes have done more to make my bike comfortable than anything else I've done.
Last edited by ocezam; Aug 24, 2011 at 12:08 AM.