Made up my mind... finally
Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, MO
Made up my mind... finally
Well I've been researching, researching and researching various exhaust components for my '11 RKC.
I even went as far as to order the Jackpot ceramic 2-1-2 headers through my dealer. Luckily enough, it took 8 weeks to get them.
During that time, I was able to step back and look long and hard at my specific situation. I'll be honest, I bought into the CAT's are bad, CAT's are too hot mantra that I heard from the dealer, forums, word of mouth, etc.
I'm not saying they're not hot nor am I saying that the bike as a whole doesn't run hot, but for myself and the wife, it's not THAT bad. For whatever reason, it doesn't seem to run much hotter than any of my previous Harleys. It may indeed run hotter, but it doesn't FEEL that much hotter.
Anyways, since I had the time (waiting for the pipes) to continue researching, I decided to go with the Rinehart 4" slip ons. I got them installed last night and I'm very pleased with the sound. I don't want nor do I need to be obnoxious, but, I do want to hear the bike running.
At idle you get the nice deep rumble, but not overly loud. When aggressively taking off, you get a nice bark, but you can also short shift to keep it neighborhood friendly. At highway speeds, you can hear them, but they'd definitely be radio friendly. For me, they're a great solution, even with the stock catted header.
Today I'll be picking up the HD Ventilator Stage I kit and installing it. Then having the dealer download done.
I know there's other ways to go (new headers, tuners, dynos, cams, etc) and if I had the funds, I might do that, but for someone on a tight budget looking for additional sound more than anything else, this fits the bill. Sure I could have gone with cheaper mufflers, but I love the and sound of the 4" Rineharts.
I even went as far as to order the Jackpot ceramic 2-1-2 headers through my dealer. Luckily enough, it took 8 weeks to get them.
During that time, I was able to step back and look long and hard at my specific situation. I'll be honest, I bought into the CAT's are bad, CAT's are too hot mantra that I heard from the dealer, forums, word of mouth, etc.
I'm not saying they're not hot nor am I saying that the bike as a whole doesn't run hot, but for myself and the wife, it's not THAT bad. For whatever reason, it doesn't seem to run much hotter than any of my previous Harleys. It may indeed run hotter, but it doesn't FEEL that much hotter.
Anyways, since I had the time (waiting for the pipes) to continue researching, I decided to go with the Rinehart 4" slip ons. I got them installed last night and I'm very pleased with the sound. I don't want nor do I need to be obnoxious, but, I do want to hear the bike running.
At idle you get the nice deep rumble, but not overly loud. When aggressively taking off, you get a nice bark, but you can also short shift to keep it neighborhood friendly. At highway speeds, you can hear them, but they'd definitely be radio friendly. For me, they're a great solution, even with the stock catted header.
Today I'll be picking up the HD Ventilator Stage I kit and installing it. Then having the dealer download done.
I know there's other ways to go (new headers, tuners, dynos, cams, etc) and if I had the funds, I might do that, but for someone on a tight budget looking for additional sound more than anything else, this fits the bill. Sure I could have gone with cheaper mufflers, but I love the and sound of the 4" Rineharts.
Tourer
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 459
Likes: 1
From: New Port Richey, FL
Hey cat or no cat. But I wanted to ask you why the download wouldnt Xieds richen it up for the ventilator for less $ or you really think you need the download. It would save you more cause Xieds are only $109.
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 8
From: Detroit, the asshole of America
Good for you. The stage 1 download is fine, don't let people try to convince you otherwise. 
I left my cat head pipe in as well, just did slipons/AC. Couldn't be happier with it.
I left my cat head pipe in as well, just did slipons/AC. Couldn't be happier with it.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,816
Likes: 2
From: New Hampshire
Just curious on the d/l......put slipons on...,bike ran and sounded great....added a Big Sucker and now not running so great. I realize that the addition of the a/c brings a lot more air flow into the system creating even leaner conditions correct? What exactly does the download do that the ecm does not do (as far as self adjusting to the new flow of air)?
2 dealers have not recommended the d/l to me......so exactly will the d/l accomplish? Should I expect the bike to run better or at least as well as it did with just slipons? My fear is that I'll do it and won't notice any difference
Wondering if op will see a diff as well
Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, MO
Just curious on the d/l......put slipons on...,bike ran and sounded great....added a Big Sucker and now not running so great. I realize that the addition of the a/c brings a lot more air flow into the system creating even leaner conditions correct? What exactly does the download do that the ecm does not do (as far as self adjusting to the new flow of air)?
2 dealers have not recommended the d/l to me......so exactly will the d/l accomplish? Should I expect the bike to run better or at least as well as it did with just slipons? My fear is that I'll do it and won't notice any difference
Wondering if op will see a diff as well
2 dealers have not recommended the d/l to me......so exactly will the d/l accomplish? Should I expect the bike to run better or at least as well as it did with just slipons? My fear is that I'll do it and won't notice any difference
Wondering if op will see a diff as well
I think a lot of people's issue with the dealer's download is that there's no customization capabilities for the user (bike owner) and so for the money it's a one time shot. Also, if you make future changes, you will need to re-download another configuration to the ECM whereas if you had purchased a tuner (for not much more money) you can reconfigure the tuner yourself at a later date (if you know what you're doing) or have a configuration sent to you by a vendor, such as Jamie @ FuelMoto when you purchase additional parts.
The download will definitely make your bike run much better.
Is the the ultimate, most flexible, best performing way to go? No. Does it do it's job, work as advertised, increase performance and make the bike run right/good? Yes.
I'm not 100% sure what the Xieds do exactly, so I'll have to investigate them more. I know they are supposed to richen things up, but how, I'm not sure. I also don't know if they're tunable.
I've used the download before and have had no issues with it, so right now, I'm going to be going with the download.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,488
Likes: 30
From: Maryland near DC
the thing I don't like about the dealer download is that if you want to make a change you have to go back to the dealer and pay again, and even if you want to go with a piggyback controller you still have to go back to the dealer and get them to set the stock controller back to the stock spec....each time you go back its more money, where as with an aftermarket controller you only pay once...and I find that pretty much everyone ends up making more than one change to the system...
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,816
Likes: 2
From: New Hampshire
Ok thanks for the explantion...so basically the dl is a tech doing pretty much the same thing you can do if you bought a tuner yourself such as a Super Tuner or a TTS? Or is a little bit different?
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Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,255
Likes: 1
From: Superior, WI
In overly general terms, yes.
BUT....
They are returning it back to "stock" AFR. Harely's stock run as lean as they safely can be in order to minimize emissions.
With a TTS or SERT they are richening the AFRs and modifiying many other factors that increase performance. More often that not by using a dyno, but "canned" maps are available.
It really depends on what your goals are. I plan on continuing to tweak, change, and modify the engine. So a tuner (PCV) was economical for me. However, if you only are concerned with riding your bike and not burning out the motor, the download will take your bike out of it's "too lean" status by upgrading the A/C and return it to a safe stock level.
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
The download resets the air/fuel mixture back to the stock ratio taking into account the new slip ons and air cleaner modification(s). There's a bunch of pre-configured settings and basically the tech picks the mufflers you're running and the air cleaner kit you're using via software and then updates the ECM (downloaded configuration).
I think a lot of people's issue with the dealer's download is that there's no customization capabilities for the user (bike owner) and so for the money it's a one time shot. Also, if you make future changes, you will need to re-download another configuration to the ECM whereas if you had purchased a tuner (for not much more money) you can reconfigure the tuner yourself at a later date (if you know what you're doing) or have a configuration sent to you by a vendor, such as Jamie @ FuelMoto when you purchase additional parts.
The download will definitely make your bike run much better.
The download will definitely make your bike run much better.
I'm not 100% sure what the Xieds do exactly, so I'll have to investigate them more. I know they are supposed to richen things up, but how, I'm not sure. I also don't know if they're tunable.
I've used the download before and have had no issues with it, so right now, I'm going to be going with the download.
Last edited by iclick; Aug 26, 2011 at 12:05 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,816
Likes: 2
From: New Hampshire
I've been going between xieds, stage 1 dl and a tuner.......pulled the trigger on a TTS Master Tuner a few minutes ago for what I think is a fair price. I just need to order the usb cable kit now. Will be interesting to see how bike responds........hopefully there is a map close to my setup