cams
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,437
Likes: 15
I love it when I hit some hot buttons. 
To all the 255 fans that think I am dissing the 255s, I am not. You guys are a hyper sensitiv bunch.
I was simply pointing out the differences between two cams. I realize there are some that think the best cam is the one they are running but there are other options. As I said, the 255 is a torque monster, to a point, and for some a great cam. Particularly for two up touring and those that spend most of their time between 2000-4000 rpms. I have recommended the 255 to some that have sought my input on cam selection and the builds turned out to be great runners and the owners very happy but it isn't the right cam for every application. A lot of guys running the 255 are running it because the build was a dealer build; a Stage II or whatever package. I don't know many that plan to build around the 255; hmmmmm, wonder why?
mtclassic, you can absolutely compare those two charts. Not saying that you can compare the numbers but you can certainly compare profiles. Both Stage I builds with a cam only upgrade, the differences beng the location of the dyno, exhaust and fuel management system. While I would agree that there would be differences if those three variables were eliminated but the basic profiles would not change. The profiles clearly show the difference in performance characteristics between the two cams and provide a picture that I believe suitable to make a choice on which of those two profiles best fit a riding style. Broader, flatter torque curves will be my choice every time.
I would like to know how many of the 255 fans have ridden, back to back, similar builds, the difference only being a 255 vs a 48? If you haven't then you should and you will understand. If I was scavenging trash bins looking for parts for my next build, I might go with a 255, after all, what's a purpose driven build plan compared to a magical cam!
Can't we all just get along?
Lighten up!
To all the 255 fans that think I am dissing the 255s, I am not. You guys are a hyper sensitiv bunch.
I was simply pointing out the differences between two cams. I realize there are some that think the best cam is the one they are running but there are other options. As I said, the 255 is a torque monster, to a point, and for some a great cam. Particularly for two up touring and those that spend most of their time between 2000-4000 rpms. I have recommended the 255 to some that have sought my input on cam selection and the builds turned out to be great runners and the owners very happy but it isn't the right cam for every application. A lot of guys running the 255 are running it because the build was a dealer build; a Stage II or whatever package. I don't know many that plan to build around the 255; hmmmmm, wonder why? mtclassic, you can absolutely compare those two charts. Not saying that you can compare the numbers but you can certainly compare profiles. Both Stage I builds with a cam only upgrade, the differences beng the location of the dyno, exhaust and fuel management system. While I would agree that there would be differences if those three variables were eliminated but the basic profiles would not change. The profiles clearly show the difference in performance characteristics between the two cams and provide a picture that I believe suitable to make a choice on which of those two profiles best fit a riding style. Broader, flatter torque curves will be my choice every time.
I would like to know how many of the 255 fans have ridden, back to back, similar builds, the difference only being a 255 vs a 48? If you haven't then you should and you will understand. If I was scavenging trash bins looking for parts for my next build, I might go with a 255, after all, what's a purpose driven build plan compared to a magical cam!
Can't we all just get along?
Lighten up!Here is why you can not cmpare those two charts. Mike (mayor) is a friend of mine and he will be the first to tell you the dyno he used is a bit on the happy side happy and you really have no idea what else has been done to the bikes. I believe the chart showing the 255's has a very good professional dyno tune and the 48H a very thorough and professional vtune. I don't have them and never will but putting up to charts from two different dynos is not a fair comparo not matter what the curve is.
"differences beng the location of the dyno, exhaust and fuel management system." that says a mouthful.
I hae seen GMR post 255 charts that look very much like the 48h you posted. I myself tend to like the 48h.
Last edited by mtclassic; Jan 2, 2012 at 04:25 PM.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 11
From: Southern Nevada (Pahrump)
Can't it just be said that the 255 cams are a decent low end torque, affordable cam that can be bought new for around $300 & used for about $150? Maybe just described as a "Torque Monster" as mentioned above?
This friggin horse has been beat to death already.....
This friggin horse has been beat to death already.....
Btw, I'd like to see the dyno for your bike, not another dyno chart you've pulled off the forums from somebody else's. It would be interesting to see how your "butt dyno" compares against what your bike is actually doing.
What strikes me about the charts you've provided is that the 255 example is probably the least favorable that I've seen, and isn't representative of the results most people achieve. To balance things out, allow me to show the best chart that I've seen for a TC96/255 combo, so I would expect any given result to be somewhere between the two.
Last edited by Mike; Jan 2, 2012 at 04:27 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,575
Likes: 7
From: Wisconsin
This isn't a "real" cam thread with out the following:
TW-555 !
Glad to get that out on the table.
Actually, there have been some pretty good posts with regards to doing some research. I'll also add that the 2012 SE catalog (check pages 71-73) has some good information on how to pick the right cam for your application.
TW-555 !
Glad to get that out on the table.
Actually, there have been some pretty good posts with regards to doing some research. I'll also add that the 2012 SE catalog (check pages 71-73) has some good information on how to pick the right cam for your application.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 8
From: Atlanta, GA
If I may interrupt ... I'm still doing the research part...but I'm stumped on "whats my riding style" only minutes ago I took a short ride and tried to pay attention to my speed/gear (no tach) and watch the road too. This is what I arrived at: 1rst up to 25mph, 2nd to 40mph, 3rd to 50, 4th to 60, 5th to 70, then 6th on up. I find this fun...bike sounds great and feels good, like it's in the sweet spot. Given this...can anyone tell me my rpm's and/or riding style? Brisk? aggressive? li'l 'ol lady? umm If this is a dumb question...go ahead..slap me upside the head
...and If anyone else was wonderin the same thing..feel free to slap them too
SC
...and If anyone else was wonderin the same thing..feel free to slap them tooSC
If you said you wanted to blast off from every light, or that you want massive power right through the redline, then my response would be different.
The question is what RPM range do you want the cams to kick in? Early, mid, or later in the curve?
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 8
From: Atlanta, GA
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,763
Likes: 2,597
From: san antonio
Set the 255 vs the 48 debate aside to address this issue that one cannot compare dyno data from similar builds to discern the difference in performance characteristics between two different cams. To ignore such data when researching and trying to make a decision to select a cam makes a lot more sense to me than jumping on a Harley forum and asking the members to select a cam.
I did not attach the build descriptioins for the two charts I attached. Both builds were Stage I 96" builds; same air filters, different exhausts, same CF one with 255s and one with 48s. I just started looking and picked the first two I came across. Sure, all the variables will affect the recorded data. Peak numbers will change, the curve might shift left or right, one dyno might be happy and the other not yadayadayada, but at the end of the day, if one looks at enough charts, a pattern will emerge. The pattern may fall halfway in between, or towards one end or the other, or even outside the two posted charts but a pattern will emerge nonetheless and cam selected on real data. That's all I am saying.
Apologies to the OP; he is probably still wondering what his riding style is.
I did not attach the build descriptioins for the two charts I attached. Both builds were Stage I 96" builds; same air filters, different exhausts, same CF one with 255s and one with 48s. I just started looking and picked the first two I came across. Sure, all the variables will affect the recorded data. Peak numbers will change, the curve might shift left or right, one dyno might be happy and the other not yadayadayada, but at the end of the day, if one looks at enough charts, a pattern will emerge. The pattern may fall halfway in between, or towards one end or the other, or even outside the two posted charts but a pattern will emerge nonetheless and cam selected on real data. That's all I am saying.
Apologies to the OP; he is probably still wondering what his riding style is.
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Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 747
Likes: 7
From: NY
Sounds you like a broad and even power range to me. Maybe a little oomph off line and a strong midrange up to highway speeds.
If you said you wanted to blast off from every light, or that you want massive power right through the redline, then my response would be different.
The question is what RPM range do you want the cams to kick in? Early, mid, or later in the curve?
If you said you wanted to blast off from every light, or that you want massive power right through the redline, then my response would be different.
The question is what RPM range do you want the cams to kick in? Early, mid, or later in the curve?
I gots me style.
SC
No one said that, what I said was that looking at two different charts from two different bikes, you cannot draw the conclusion that most other bikes with a similar build will fall in the middle.