Is running lean bad?
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,216
Likes: 224
From: Glendale AZ
I really started noticing the chalky whiteness on my plugs after I removed the cat. I installed a VIED and adjusted it according to what each plug looked like after riding it. Now that I have slip-on pipes the VIED is handling the AFRs well. I would consider using one of those before taking the leap to a tuner. I never shift into 6th gear unless I am going over 60mph, the rpms will be in line with the speed so I don't worry bout that. The download effectiveness would be apparent in less than 100 miles of riding. If the chalk doesn't change then its ineffective and other alternatives are needed.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 31
From: earth
Low RPM stalls, no issues for 14k, stage 1 download no issues for 5k. Consider checking/cleaning the idle air plunger port, check for pin holes in the in-tank fuel lines; other possiblities are the TPS or fuel filter. Disregard plug reading in an EFI, it's pointless, ain't nobody out there can look at an EFI plug and accurately determine AFR or what point in the map that AFR exists. If you are concerned about a lean condition, hook it up to a sniffer to validate. You got a stage one download, not the best tuning solution but I highly doubt it is legitimately running lean above 14.7. Lugging is operating the bike at an RPM that produces less power than is required to adequately propel the machine without strain, it varies bike to bike depending on the setup, payload, what gear, how much power the machine makes and the position of the power band dictated by the cam. Listen to your motor, when it starts to sound different down low, maybe even valve train rattling, thats the point when the motor is starting to struggle, note it and stay a few 100 RPMs above that point and that should keep you out of the lugging zone. Best of luck finding the fault.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,488
Likes: 30
From: Maryland near DC
lets see, you said the bike ran good after the upgrade a just recently started to act up...it sound to me like you have some sort of problem.....the symptoms point to lean condition...lean conditions are ususlly caused by vacuum leaks on the intake, or fuel system problems..I would start by looking for intake leaks, then check for fuel pressure issues (ie., most common, leaking fuel line in gas tank)...It could be something as simple as crap built up in the throttle body...
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Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
From: Bristow, VA
Well gents,
It's definitely doing the "hiccup" at above 2500 RPM and above 60mph on a consistent basis now (after about 10 minutes of riding from a cold start).
Appointment on Friday to the dealership...not leaving this time without them finding out what it is. I don't want to be out in the middle of nowhere when the "something isn't right" finally turns into "oh sH&%"
Thanks for the input so far, Gents.
It's definitely doing the "hiccup" at above 2500 RPM and above 60mph on a consistent basis now (after about 10 minutes of riding from a cold start).
Appointment on Friday to the dealership...not leaving this time without them finding out what it is. I don't want to be out in the middle of nowhere when the "something isn't right" finally turns into "oh sH&%"
Thanks for the input so far, Gents.
Road Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,145
Likes: 98
From: Colorado Springs
I really started noticing the chalky whiteness on my plugs after I removed the cat. I installed a VIED and adjusted it according to what each plug looked like after riding it. Now that I have slip-on pipes the VIED is handling the AFRs well. I would consider using one of those before taking the leap to a tuner. I never shift into 6th gear unless I am going over 60mph, the rpms will be in line with the speed so I don't worry bout that. The download effectiveness would be apparent in less than 100 miles of riding. If the chalk doesn't change then its ineffective and other alternatives are needed.
Last edited by ocezam; Feb 22, 2012 at 06:05 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,601
Likes: 4,043
From: Virginia
White residue on plugs=engine running too hot=most probably lean fuel condition. Generally need to remap bike, but engine missing (what I think you are calling hicupping) could be another issue as well.
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Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
From: Bristow, VA
Just an update...
...went ahead and bought the SE Racing Tuner. Will be DYNO'd along with a 15K service next week.
Took it to the shop today and had one of the mech's ride it through town. He had the "missing" happen to him, and he agrees it's the lean condition of the engine.
On the cool side, I think I'll be happy with the performance after the tune.
Will drop you all an update post-DYNO.
...went ahead and bought the SE Racing Tuner. Will be DYNO'd along with a 15K service next week.
Took it to the shop today and had one of the mech's ride it through town. He had the "missing" happen to him, and he agrees it's the lean condition of the engine.
On the cool side, I think I'll be happy with the performance after the tune.
Will drop you all an update post-DYNO.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,747
Likes: 47
From: Central Florida
Lean=Hot Pipes and air cleaner always call for a SERT or a Power Commander or the like. I've never found a simple download to do the trick
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,140
Likes: 17
From: Wisconsin
Low RPM stalls, no issues for 14k, stage 1 download no issues for 5k. Consider checking/cleaning the idle air plunger port, check for pin holes in the in-tank fuel lines; other possiblities are the TPS or fuel filter. Disregard plug reading in an EFI, it's pointless, ain't nobody out there can look at an EFI plug and accurately determine AFR or what point in the map that AFR exists. If you are concerned about a lean condition, hook it up to a sniffer to validate. You got a stage one download, not the best tuning solution but I highly doubt it is legitimately running lean above 14.7. Lugging is operating the bike at an RPM that produces less power than is required to adequately propel the machine without strain, it varies bike to bike depending on the setup, payload, what gear, how much power the machine makes and the position of the power band dictated by the cam. Listen to your motor, when it starts to sound different down low, maybe even valve train rattling, thats the point when the motor is starting to struggle, note it and stay a few 100 RPMs above that point and that should keep you out of the lugging zone. Best of luck finding the fault.
You already bought the tuner, but in the future it would be good to learn who really knows their stuff around here and save yourself some time, money and grief. Read his signature, it says it all. If there is anything to learn here about EFI, it is about reading plugs. Even with carb bikes, you needed to know how to do it, with EFI bikes, there is no way. I used to watch guys on a carb bike think they were running too rich, throw in a new set of plugs, ride a few minutes at highway speed, then let it set and idle a few minutes before shutting it down. They would read the rich plugs and start leaning out the high speed jet when really what they were reading was the results from the idle jet from sitting in the driveway idling.
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 86
From: Centeral Coast, California
Skippy: I have a lot of confidence in JD, and he's likely the one that tested and looked over your bike. I trust you're in good hands on this one, though in my reading over the last couple of years, Fabrik8r is an excellent resource.
Looking forward to hearing from you regarding the results.
Looking forward to hearing from you regarding the results.
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Ignition/Tuner/ECM/Fuel Injection
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