Xied's Question
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
IED's and their variants (XIED's, etc.) work only in closed-loop mode, so they will not alter dyno numbers (peak HP and TQ) at all. Accordingly, they make no adjustments outside that range once you enter open-loop, which is above ~85kpa or 50-60% throttle and ~3500-4500 rpm (depending on year-model). They also may prompt the ECM to throw codes if they alter the closed-loop area too much, i.e. outside the limitations of the O2 sensors (~14.4:1), but AFAIK these are historical codes that won't prompt the check-engine light to illuminate, revealing themselves only if checked. Can anyone verify this?
IED's will cool the engine down a bit at idle and in the cruise-range by lowering the AFR, how much depending on the variant that you buy, but in the tests I've made on my bike by experimenting with two different tuners (PCV-AT and PV) this doesn't translate into a meaningful improvement. They also may increase part-throttle response, but gas mileage will take a dive when AFR decreases this much.
Other than that they do nothing, and if you plan on moving beyond stock to a full-Stage 1 or greater you will need a real tuner, or as a minimum the much-maligned (rightly so, IMO) and overpriced HD "Stage 1 download." Despite claims that they are not recommended for Stage 1 applications (including AC), I think they may work acceptably on some models. On others the open-loop area will run unacceptably lean, just as they would without IED's or a tuner installed.
I'm not putting IED's down, as I do think they have a market niche with value for some riders, but I think potential buyers should realize their limitations before jumping into a purchase. Again, if you want some cooling and part-throttle-response improvements and don't aspire to changes beyond a muffler swap these can help a bit in the two areas mentioned. If I'm missing any other aspect of operation they aid I'd appreciate any info.
IED's will cool the engine down a bit at idle and in the cruise-range by lowering the AFR, how much depending on the variant that you buy, but in the tests I've made on my bike by experimenting with two different tuners (PCV-AT and PV) this doesn't translate into a meaningful improvement. They also may increase part-throttle response, but gas mileage will take a dive when AFR decreases this much.
Other than that they do nothing, and if you plan on moving beyond stock to a full-Stage 1 or greater you will need a real tuner, or as a minimum the much-maligned (rightly so, IMO) and overpriced HD "Stage 1 download." Despite claims that they are not recommended for Stage 1 applications (including AC), I think they may work acceptably on some models. On others the open-loop area will run unacceptably lean, just as they would without IED's or a tuner installed.
I'm not putting IED's down, as I do think they have a market niche with value for some riders, but I think potential buyers should realize their limitations before jumping into a purchase. Again, if you want some cooling and part-throttle-response improvements and don't aspire to changes beyond a muffler swap these can help a bit in the two areas mentioned. If I'm missing any other aspect of operation they aid I'd appreciate any info.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,727
Likes: 6
IED's and their variants (XIED's, etc.) work only in closed-loop mode, so they will not alter dyno numbers (peak HP and TQ) at all. Accordingly, they make no adjustments outside that range once you enter open-loop, which is above ~85kpa or 50-60% throttle and ~3500-4500 rpm (depending on year-model). They also may prompt the ECM to throw codes if they alter the closed-loop area too much, i.e. outside the limitations of the O2 sensors (~14.4:1), but AFAIK these are historical codes that won't prompt the check-engine light to illuminate, revealing themselves only if checked. Can anyone verify this?
IED's will cool the engine down a bit at idle and in the cruise-range by lowering the AFR, how much depending on the variant that you buy, but in the tests I've made on my bike by experimenting with two different tuners (PCV-AT and PV) this doesn't translate into a meaningful improvement. They also may increase part-throttle response, but gas mileage will take a dive when AFR decreases this much.
Other than that they do nothing, and if you plan on moving beyond stock to a full-Stage 1 or greater you will need a real tuner, or as a minimum the much-maligned (rightly so, IMO) and overpriced HD "Stage 1 download." Despite claims that they are not recommended for Stage 1 applications (including AC), I think they may work acceptably on some models. On others the open-loop area will run unacceptably lean, just as they would without IED's or a tuner installed.
I'm not putting IED's down, as I do think they have a market niche with value for some riders, but I think potential buyers should realize their limitations before jumping into a purchase. Again, if you want some cooling and part-throttle-response improvements and don't aspire to changes beyond a muffler swap these can help a bit in the two areas mentioned. If I'm missing any other aspect of operation they aid I'd appreciate any info.
IED's will cool the engine down a bit at idle and in the cruise-range by lowering the AFR, how much depending on the variant that you buy, but in the tests I've made on my bike by experimenting with two different tuners (PCV-AT and PV) this doesn't translate into a meaningful improvement. They also may increase part-throttle response, but gas mileage will take a dive when AFR decreases this much.
Other than that they do nothing, and if you plan on moving beyond stock to a full-Stage 1 or greater you will need a real tuner, or as a minimum the much-maligned (rightly so, IMO) and overpriced HD "Stage 1 download." Despite claims that they are not recommended for Stage 1 applications (including AC), I think they may work acceptably on some models. On others the open-loop area will run unacceptably lean, just as they would without IED's or a tuner installed.
I'm not putting IED's down, as I do think they have a market niche with value for some riders, but I think potential buyers should realize their limitations before jumping into a purchase. Again, if you want some cooling and part-throttle-response improvements and don't aspire to changes beyond a muffler swap these can help a bit in the two areas mentioned. If I'm missing any other aspect of operation they aid I'd appreciate any info.
iclick, do you secretly work for fuel moto?
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,140
Likes: 17
From: Wisconsin
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 156
Likes: 1
From: Eau Claire Wisconsin
Bought the XIED's love them on my softail. they keep the motor cooler and let you drive in a gear and "lug" rather than always shifting down gears at lower speeds. Yes, if you twist it beyond 1/4 you will want the air cleaner upgraded. I did that and it helped. But then i added the commander. Now I have all three (stock pipes) and love it. I will not take my XIED's off and it will be the first thing that I buy when I get a street glide someday. I love the low end fuel at the bottom of the gears.
Peace.
Jim
Peace.
Jim
Last edited by mikedanben; Apr 15, 2012 at 02:07 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,140
Likes: 17
From: Wisconsin
Bought the XIED's love them on my softail. they keep the motor cooler and let you drive in a gear and "lug" rather than always shifting down gears at lower speeds. Yes, if you twist it beyond 1/4 you will want the air cleaner upgraded. I did that and it helped. But then i added the commander. Now I have all three (stock pipes) and love it. I will not take my XIED's off and it will be the first thing that I buy when I get a street glide someday. I live the low end fuel at the bottom of the gears.
Peace.
Jim
Peace.
Jim
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,727
Likes: 6
Really, he is not off track and is just being very informative, hard to dispute anything he said. It's fundamentally wrong for someone to come on here and try to convince people the XIEDs are the cure all and you'll never need a tuner until you do engine work, just like it's wrong for guys to come on here and say you always need a tuner. The forum is to become informed and make intelligent decisions. You have to filter out all the crap and do good research, a lot of what is said on the forum is true, a lot is not. I can't put down XIEDs, I have no data to back my claim if I did, but the info here was pretty much common knowledge if you do your homework. Lots of guys add them at the same time as pipes and air cleaners then say how great their bike runs. Many times I have experienced seeing people add pipes to their bikes, actually lose power, but the extra noise gives the impression it is running stronger. Must be right? It's louder. Me, personally, I like to make sure my bike is running at absolute peak, not just good enough, so I will invest in a tuner and have it tuned. If you're happy with how your bike runs and don't care that it might run better and you don't want to pay to find out, then that is good for you, too. This XIED, tuner, dealer flash fight will go on for a long, long time .....
Yes, he is off track. This is not an Xied/Tuner debate. The question was and I qoute: "My question is if I add a stage one air cleaner will my xied's still keep it running as it is now. I'm thinking of going with the Fuel Moto billet air cleaner."
Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: Missouri
Xied's
Have you ever use them?
IED's and their variants (XIED's, etc.) work only in closed-loop mode, so they will not alter dyno numbers (peak HP and TQ) at all. Accordingly, they make no adjustments outside that range once you enter open-loop, which is above ~85kpa or 50-60% throttle and ~3500-4500 rpm (depending on year-model). They also may prompt the ECM to throw codes if they alter the closed-loop area too much, i.e. outside the limitations of the O2 sensors (~14.4:1), but AFAIK these are historical codes that won't prompt the check-engine light to illuminate, revealing themselves only if checked. Can anyone verify this?
IED's will cool the engine down a bit at idle and in the cruise-range by lowering the AFR, how much depending on the variant that you buy, but in the tests I've made on my bike by experimenting with two different tuners (PCV-AT and PV) this doesn't translate into a meaningful improvement. They also may increase part-throttle response, but gas mileage will take a dive when AFR decreases this much. Have you ever used them?
Other than that they do nothing, and if you plan on moving beyond stock to a full-Stage 1 or greater you will need a real tuner, or as a minimum the much-maligned (rightly so, IMO) and overpriced HD "Stage 1 download." Despite claims that they are not recommended for Stage 1 applications (including AC), I think they may work acceptably on some models. On others the open-loop area will run unacceptably lean, just as they would without IED's or a tuner installed.
I'm not putting IED's down, as I do think they have a market niche with value for some riders, but I think potential buyers should realize their limitations before jumping into a purchase. Again, if you want some cooling and part-throttle-response improvements and don't aspire to changes beyond a muffler swap these can help a bit in the two areas mentioned. If I'm missing any other aspect of operation they aid I'd appreciate any info.
IED's will cool the engine down a bit at idle and in the cruise-range by lowering the AFR, how much depending on the variant that you buy, but in the tests I've made on my bike by experimenting with two different tuners (PCV-AT and PV) this doesn't translate into a meaningful improvement. They also may increase part-throttle response, but gas mileage will take a dive when AFR decreases this much. Have you ever used them?
Other than that they do nothing, and if you plan on moving beyond stock to a full-Stage 1 or greater you will need a real tuner, or as a minimum the much-maligned (rightly so, IMO) and overpriced HD "Stage 1 download." Despite claims that they are not recommended for Stage 1 applications (including AC), I think they may work acceptably on some models. On others the open-loop area will run unacceptably lean, just as they would without IED's or a tuner installed.
I'm not putting IED's down, as I do think they have a market niche with value for some riders, but I think potential buyers should realize their limitations before jumping into a purchase. Again, if you want some cooling and part-throttle-response improvements and don't aspire to changes beyond a muffler swap these can help a bit in the two areas mentioned. If I'm missing any other aspect of operation they aid I'd appreciate any info.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,140
Likes: 17
From: Wisconsin
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Tourer
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
From: Tulsa OK
Guy is WAY off track.....
Little over 1 year, 35,000 miles on 96" with XIED's only.
STAGE 1 DOWNLOAD DOES NOT CHANGE FUEL MIXTURE!!!!
It only changes the timing tables. Fuel remains at 13.8:1 mixture up to about 65% throttle, then it goes full rich, 12.8:1 above and beyond that.
The XIED's I use keep my bike running 13.2:1 Dyno verified, hold throttle anywhere from 2,000 RPM up to 3,500 RPM and look at the readings on the sniffers while on the Dyno.
I was told same thing from my Dyno/Dealership....spot on, don't mess with it. Runs out great, in all temps and altitudes, been from sea level to over 14,000 feet on it now.
No need for tuner with Stage 1, just XIED's....
Little over 1 year, 35,000 miles on 96" with XIED's only.
STAGE 1 DOWNLOAD DOES NOT CHANGE FUEL MIXTURE!!!!
It only changes the timing tables. Fuel remains at 13.8:1 mixture up to about 65% throttle, then it goes full rich, 12.8:1 above and beyond that.
The XIED's I use keep my bike running 13.2:1 Dyno verified, hold throttle anywhere from 2,000 RPM up to 3,500 RPM and look at the readings on the sniffers while on the Dyno.
I was told same thing from my Dyno/Dealership....spot on, don't mess with it. Runs out great, in all temps and altitudes, been from sea level to over 14,000 feet on it now.
No need for tuner with Stage 1, just XIED's....