Inverted forks for touring bikes
Former Sponsor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,360
Likes: 453
From: Davie, FL
Move Mounts
The new aluminum top trees clamp around the fork tubes like any race bike for a positive clamp giving much more rigidity than the slip fit "bolt" that is screwed into your fork tube than has a bolt that screws into this nut & pulls it through the top tree. No positive connection. This is an example of the two.
We clamp the forks so they can not deflect.
This is what is in your Dressers, Softails, Sporters, FXR's, and older 2005~prior Dynas.
This is a stock 1984~current Bagger fork & triple tree set up.
Stage IV
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Troy, Ohio
Howard, I just realized that I wasn't very clear as to what Road Glide setup i was refering to. I was asking about the inverted fork setup on the green road glide, in the picture it looks like the fairing was moved forward to allow clearance for the new positive offset of the inverted fork setup. Is that the case?
Roger
Roger
Former Sponsor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,360
Likes: 453
From: Davie, FL
Clarification
warbird458 You are correct in the Green Bike has different type trees to change the steering geometry. I moved the forks (steering stem offset) and put the forks forward of the steering stem and corrected the trail to 4" and changed the rake to 26ş much different than your stock bagger.
The trees that I thought (wrongly) you were referring to is our new trees on the CNC machine which are direct replacement. Yes, I built a brand new fairing bracket to move the fairing forward to allow for clearance of the new trees.
The trees that I thought (wrongly) you were referring to is our new trees on the CNC machine which are direct replacement. Yes, I built a brand new fairing bracket to move the fairing forward to allow for clearance of the new trees.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,928
Likes: 285
From: Edmond Oklahoma
The problem you and the other complainers have here is that you really should be buying a different bike that fits your riding style better. Oh, I have no problem with homegrown upgrades that improves performance. Many of the improvements we see in aviation started in the homebuilt market. But to whine about MOCO being derelict by not building a better quality system is ridiculous. Harley sells more bikes than any other manufacturer in the US, I don't see any motivation to raise the cost of their bikes by adding a more expensive suspension.
Beary
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 44,903
Likes: 29,883
From: PNW
But I average 5000 miles a year on my SG, which is way way above the average Harley rider and I don't really have a problem with my suspension.
The problem you and the other complainers have here is that you really should be buying a different bike that fits your riding style better.
Beary
The problem you and the other complainers have here is that you really should be buying a different bike that fits your riding style better.
Beary
As far as selecting a better bike - you listed the two most popular touring bikes out there - the Harley touring and a Goldwing. What bike should we be buying instead?
I feel the Moco could step up their game and give us a better suspension. It won't be anything near what Howard offers, but it may be a suspension more befitting the premium branding that Harley is marketing. Just my opinion.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,928
Likes: 285
From: Edmond Oklahoma
Beary
Last edited by beary; Jul 25, 2013 at 04:19 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 44,903
Likes: 29,883
From: PNW
You missed my point completely, if 90% of Harley owners put less than 2000 miles on their bikes per year (that is conservative) and most of the other 10% are OK with the suspension, what motivation is there for MOCO to put on a more expensive system? Now maybe what they should consider is an option package with a better system. I can see that.
Beary
Beary
Harley Davidson makes an expensive bike. I'm just saying they could up their game to keep up with the high price. Not that the Moco is alone in this philosophy. For the most part, BMW shocks suck too.
And they do offer upgraded shocks and fork parts.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,898
From: Bedford UK
Harley spends a fortune on it's paintwork, as an example of how it applies excellence to its products. If the suspension was the epitome of excellence, the weekend warriors doing a few miles a year would be happy, as also would those of us who really do want to set off over the horizon, on a grand tour.
I am reminded of Yamaha back in the early 70s. Their XS650 was a pig to ride, their attempt to make a British styled twin. They were made for the US market and tried to sell them in Europe, where they got panned. So they re-engineered them for the European market and sold them in the USA. Everyone was happy!
Same applies today to Harley, 40 years later. A bike that excels will please everyone, even those who can't tell the difference, but especially those who can.
I am reminded of Yamaha back in the early 70s. Their XS650 was a pig to ride, their attempt to make a British styled twin. They were made for the US market and tried to sell them in Europe, where they got panned. So they re-engineered them for the European market and sold them in the USA. Everyone was happy!
Same applies today to Harley, 40 years later. A bike that excels will please everyone, even those who can't tell the difference, but especially those who can.
Stage II
Joined: Mar 2024
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Orlando
Some of the reason why you put an inverted fork on a bagger is a much improved plush ride as well as performance. The ID is larger in an inverted fork thus you can actually put a real cartridge inside of the fork tube, not a small cartridge without external compression & rebound as well as spring pre-load. On my own bike which, the green one is not (for you sports fans out there, you would recognize him & yes he puts up to 40K miles/year on his off season), I have 30mm Ohlins externally adjustable compression and rebound w/spring pre-load. The ride is no where the same or even in the same class as the aforementioned products.
If you do not have the funds than just say so and do the best you can for what you can do. If you are saying what is best for all than you clearly do not know how these things work nor do you know the difference between the products and have not had the experience to talk about the subject. The aforementioned products above are not in the same league as real suspension.
Go to the track where there are professional people who make a living at riding and actually know what they are talking about. Ask their opinion or let them ride your bike for their opinion on what your bike feels like. All of the riders already know what every option is available. The road and the track are basically the same as far as your suspension goes. Settings and values change for the application.
Fork Tube Rigidity:
The slider is the part that strengthens the fork. There is typically 7" of fork tube showing between the axle clamp and slider. The slider is very sturdy and prevents the forks from deflecting. watch how your own crap 41mm fork bends while traveling at speed by duck taping a few LED flashlights onto the forks and report what you see. When your forks are deflecting they can not ride in the bushings very well and control is sacrificed.
Top Triple tree connection:
The top triple tree on a 1986 & above does not have a positive connection. The top of the fork is held in to the top tree by a slip fit bolt that passes through the top tree. The bolt pulls up the fork tube only and never clamps it. Travel very slow, like a mile or two, turn the handlebars to 45ş and lock the brake while watching the top tree deflect from alignment of the bottom tree. What do you think happens at speed? Does the tail wag the dog on high speed wobbles? Most certainly does not help and an explanation of why after a bagger brace is installed the wobbel is still there.
An improvement over this HD Bagger system is clamping the top tree to the fork tube like a real motorcycle does.
41mm (Really a 1 5/8" (-) 0.001" /there was no metric makers when the original 1948 Hydroglide was designed and offered for sale in 1949 on HD's. These forks deflect due to the small diameter and were the staple until the 49mm V-Rods & 2006 Dynas. Weight could be reduced on the 41mm fork tube from 0.165" wall tubing to 0.100" by making a larger diameter (49mm) fork tube from deflection through strength gained by something called cross-section.
Bushing system comparison:
The Showa fork on your Harley uses a bushing system of the top bushing is captivated in the slider and the fork tube rides/slides on the bushing. The bottom bushing is captivated on the fork tube and slides up and down on the aluminum slider.
The better inverted forks have bushings that are captivated in the slider and the fork tube slides in the bushing almost at the top of fork tube when fully extended and at the bottom of the slider where the fork seal is. The spacing is much longer than the Showa slider system so the support of the fork tube is better. This means less stiction so the suspension can work better.
Springs:
The springs rub constantly against the inside of the captivating fork tube constantly causing small metal particles that contaminate the fork oil. These particles than mix with the oil than wear the Teflon coating of of the bushings and wear the hard chrome off of the fork tubes. 2 weeks ago I rebuilt a set of forks off of a Roadking with 20K miles and the bushings on both top and bottom were worn out and the fork tubes had the hard chrome rubbed off. This is very typical.
A cartridge system has the springs on the cartridge body and at the end of the damper rod. A quality system has a spring guide inside of the spring to provide support and aid in kink prevention.
Rake and Trail:
Rake: The FL's use large amount of rake which wear the top portion of bushing on the Slider bushing (top of slider) and bottom busing on the Guide bushing (captivated on the fork tube). The fork tubes do not slide as well as a bike with less rake therefor the suspension do not work as well.
Trail: The FL's have between 6.6" & 6.9" of trail. Great for going straight and poor for maneuvering. If you wish to near unconscious while riding, a longer trail requires less input.
If you do not have the funds than just say so and do the best you can for what you can do. If you are saying what is best for all than you clearly do not know how these things work nor do you know the difference between the products and have not had the experience to talk about the subject. The aforementioned products above are not in the same league as real suspension.
Go to the track where there are professional people who make a living at riding and actually know what they are talking about. Ask their opinion or let them ride your bike for their opinion on what your bike feels like. All of the riders already know what every option is available. The road and the track are basically the same as far as your suspension goes. Settings and values change for the application.
Fork Tube Rigidity:
The slider is the part that strengthens the fork. There is typically 7" of fork tube showing between the axle clamp and slider. The slider is very sturdy and prevents the forks from deflecting. watch how your own crap 41mm fork bends while traveling at speed by duck taping a few LED flashlights onto the forks and report what you see. When your forks are deflecting they can not ride in the bushings very well and control is sacrificed.
Top Triple tree connection:
The top triple tree on a 1986 & above does not have a positive connection. The top of the fork is held in to the top tree by a slip fit bolt that passes through the top tree. The bolt pulls up the fork tube only and never clamps it. Travel very slow, like a mile or two, turn the handlebars to 45ş and lock the brake while watching the top tree deflect from alignment of the bottom tree. What do you think happens at speed? Does the tail wag the dog on high speed wobbles? Most certainly does not help and an explanation of why after a bagger brace is installed the wobbel is still there.
An improvement over this HD Bagger system is clamping the top tree to the fork tube like a real motorcycle does.
41mm (Really a 1 5/8" (-) 0.001" /there was no metric makers when the original 1948 Hydroglide was designed and offered for sale in 1949 on HD's. These forks deflect due to the small diameter and were the staple until the 49mm V-Rods & 2006 Dynas. Weight could be reduced on the 41mm fork tube from 0.165" wall tubing to 0.100" by making a larger diameter (49mm) fork tube from deflection through strength gained by something called cross-section.
Bushing system comparison:
The Showa fork on your Harley uses a bushing system of the top bushing is captivated in the slider and the fork tube rides/slides on the bushing. The bottom bushing is captivated on the fork tube and slides up and down on the aluminum slider.
The better inverted forks have bushings that are captivated in the slider and the fork tube slides in the bushing almost at the top of fork tube when fully extended and at the bottom of the slider where the fork seal is. The spacing is much longer than the Showa slider system so the support of the fork tube is better. This means less stiction so the suspension can work better.
Springs:
The springs rub constantly against the inside of the captivating fork tube constantly causing small metal particles that contaminate the fork oil. These particles than mix with the oil than wear the Teflon coating of of the bushings and wear the hard chrome off of the fork tubes. 2 weeks ago I rebuilt a set of forks off of a Roadking with 20K miles and the bushings on both top and bottom were worn out and the fork tubes had the hard chrome rubbed off. This is very typical.
A cartridge system has the springs on the cartridge body and at the end of the damper rod. A quality system has a spring guide inside of the spring to provide support and aid in kink prevention.
Rake and Trail:
Rake: The FL's use large amount of rake which wear the top portion of bushing on the Slider bushing (top of slider) and bottom busing on the Guide bushing (captivated on the fork tube). The fork tubes do not slide as well as a bike with less rake therefor the suspension do not work as well.
Trail: The FL's have between 6.6" & 6.9" of trail. Great for going straight and poor for maneuvering. If you wish to near unconscious while riding, a longer trail requires less input.
