Service manual torque value....THIS CAN'T BE RIGHT
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 31
From: earth
Without getting into a pissing contest....Working on your bike and designing them are horses of a different color.
Mech, tech, backyard mech, Mongo turn bolt.
Engineers that design and figure out all the nuances for lack of a better word.
Just because it's same size bolt doesn't mean something didn't change between year models.
Mech, tech, backyard mech, Mongo turn bolt.
Engineers that design and figure out all the nuances for lack of a better word.
Just because it's same size bolt doesn't mean something didn't change between year models.
Thread Starter
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,863
Likes: 172
From: Clarksville, TN
Agreed, looking at the values from previous years, what most likely changed was the fasteners from grade 5 to grade 8, possibly the base material of the inner primary housing or the cover. Either way the max torque for a 1/4-20 is max torque for a 1/4-20, since the torque was in question and no other way to easily validate the correctness of the manual, referencing torque from a reliable generic chart may keep Mongo from break bolt, **** moan.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,129
Likes: 143
From: Santa Cruz
I'm always amazed how idiots on the internet make crap up about complete strangers. I was the guy that teaches folks how to turn wrenches, but yeah, I never turned a wrench and don't know crap. You are a total asshat.
Thread Starter
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,863
Likes: 172
From: Clarksville, TN
If you know so much then you should have know why the question was even asked and gave some useful input instead of use the manual, so suck it old man. You have anything else to say PM me teach.
I've got the answer I was looking for....Thanks for your insight
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 17
From: eastern oklahoma
hell, if it ain't tight enough, hook that wrench onto a 2 foot cheater bar with a 4 foot long pipe. make sure it's plenty tight. whenever the screw head pops off, it's tight enough. jeeze man, quit trying to analyze it, and go with 100 inch pounds, and of course, cross torque those screws starting at a lower value, and increasing the torque. spreading the load throughout the cover in sequence. the object of the game is to get two planes to match up without one being loose and all the others tight. common sense.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 172
From: Simi Valley, CA
Torque values! And torquing in general. This is a never ending subject, and it will never end.
Personally I see torque values as a guide and rarely ever use a torque wrench. For those with limited wrenching experience, yes, the use of a torque wrench is a good idea but it is not the holy grail. It gets you in the ballpark. An experienced hand is an acceptable alternative to torque wrenches for the vast majority of all the fasteners on your bike.
For those that disagree, consider the following...
Torquing is only a marginally accurate way to achieve the desired effect, which is the "bolt stretch" and/or "clamping force" of a given joint. There are way too many variables that exist to achieve precise "bolt stretch" and "clamping forces" with the use of a torque wrench.
Here's a perfect example:
Does your service manual tell you whether the recommended torque values are for dry or lubricated threads? And then what type of lubricant? Mine doesn't. The use of a lubricant, and the type of lubricant, can change the torque required by nearly 50% to achieve the same "bolt stretch" and "clamping force".
Therefore, if the required torque can change by as much as nearly 50%, simply based on the use of lubricants and their type, how robust are those torque specifications?
There are many more variables but this example should get my point across.
Bottom line - the torque values specified for the majority of fasteners on your bike are simply not that critical. If they were, the torquing process would be defined in much more detail than a lone torque value range.
The cover screws referenced in the OP fit in this category.
Personally I see torque values as a guide and rarely ever use a torque wrench. For those with limited wrenching experience, yes, the use of a torque wrench is a good idea but it is not the holy grail. It gets you in the ballpark. An experienced hand is an acceptable alternative to torque wrenches for the vast majority of all the fasteners on your bike.
For those that disagree, consider the following...
Torquing is only a marginally accurate way to achieve the desired effect, which is the "bolt stretch" and/or "clamping force" of a given joint. There are way too many variables that exist to achieve precise "bolt stretch" and "clamping forces" with the use of a torque wrench.
Here's a perfect example:
Does your service manual tell you whether the recommended torque values are for dry or lubricated threads? And then what type of lubricant? Mine doesn't. The use of a lubricant, and the type of lubricant, can change the torque required by nearly 50% to achieve the same "bolt stretch" and "clamping force".
Therefore, if the required torque can change by as much as nearly 50%, simply based on the use of lubricants and their type, how robust are those torque specifications?
There are many more variables but this example should get my point across.
Bottom line - the torque values specified for the majority of fasteners on your bike are simply not that critical. If they were, the torquing process would be defined in much more detail than a lone torque value range.
The cover screws referenced in the OP fit in this category.
Last edited by 2black1s; Nov 14, 2012 at 06:28 AM.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,341
Likes: 9
From: Woodinville, WA
Geez - who pissed in your coffee? Seriously - I guess Harley decided to up the spec. Maybe they had some issues with gaskets leaking although I've never had a problem when bolts are torqued in correct sequence - I've been using the 2010 manual so if you want to go with the lower torque I say go for it. You can always do them over later if necessary (remove and re Loctite of course). I've noticed a number of service bulletins that involve tightening fasteners beyond their original spec (such as the right side transmission bolts that hold the exhaust bracket).
