FCS Thermal Creep Switch Issues
Thread Starter
|
Banned
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 648
Likes: 9
From: WV
I have been running one of the snap switches but it was an earlier sample calibrated at 110C, otherwise same switch, mine comes on pretty consistently at 250F CHT then drops back down about 230-240 depending on conditions. The switches I have been shipping are calibrated at 105C and so far feedback suggest they are coming on about 240F give or take. I was concerned about the "off" temperature which is about 70% of the "closed" calibration, but the fan don't seem to be running excessively long after shut down, so I'm going to order some samples in 100C calibration and see what they do. A 10F drop may do the trick to get them on in colder weather operations, I'm actually surprised that some are not coming on in 50F ambient temps, because head temps still get very high in cold weather operation. There are a lot of variables that influence the function of these switches so I'm working on install instructions right now for this new switch, I think a consistent install will be a good start to help to narrow the temp differences amongst reports, besides that I am just way over due to publish them. Tonight I'm installing one of the 105C switches on my bike, same one that I have been shipping for a month or so, and see how much difference there is. I think this snap switch is well suited for the application and its more durable than the creep. I know a lot of people like the 190F operation of the creep, myself included, but honestly the system doesn't hold the CHTs at 190F, so really a switch that comes on at the low end of an engine's "normalized" operating temp should be a decent match. More to follow as it develops. Thanks for the participation and contributions.
Jason
Jason
Thread Starter
|
Banned
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 648
Likes: 9
From: WV
I wont say that testing this weekend was a total waste of time, but I don't have any eureka revelations to share yet. I noticed some inconsistencies from my normal front and rear head temps, having recently changed my injectors I decided to do a few O2 data runs to verify and sure enough I need to spend a little time retuning. Anyway, the snap switch is affected by the natural ambient airstream while in motion, I cant quantify it yet but basically the faster and colder, the longer it takes to come on. I tried it at 75F for about 6 miles on the freeway and it didn't come on till the ET was 250 , so I can easily see why 12hdrk said that it didn't come on riding in 52F weather for 7 miles. I will be tinkering with install method, install location, and lower calibration switches. In a static condition the 105C snap switch worked pretty good, mine came on consistently at 235-240, but that was sitting still idling to come up to that temp, most people aren't going to warm up their bike for 5-10 minutes before they take off. I'm pretty confident the snap switch is workable, just have to try a few things out.
Thread Starter
|
Banned
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 648
Likes: 9
From: WV
It is a consideration, but they still aren't getting exposed to the extreme heat as if manually operated only in slow/stopped traffic, like after the IETMS alerts you to turn them on. I'm not anticipating a bunch of failed fans due to using this new style snap switch.
Last edited by WARDSPARTSWERKS; Nov 1, 2013 at 01:46 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,981
Likes: 48
From: Northern Illinois
Question on the Thermal (creep) switch install.
Jason is sending me a new Thermal Switch because the Mylar covering got damaged when I installed the first switch, even though I followed all instructions on the orientation of the switch between the fins. I also used a thin piece of wood to tap it between the fins.
I'm also gonna use some Hi Temp RTV this time to provide a little lubricant.
I don't want to screw up another switch. Do most of you tap the switch in all the way until it contacts the cylinder wall, or do you just tap it in between the fins until it's snug leaving an air gap between the switch and wall?
I've re-read Jason's instructions, and it doesn't clarify which to do.
It seems to me that whether the switch has an air gap, or is all the way up against the wall, would affect operation of the switch because the cylinder wall is going to be hotter than the fins.
However, I think the fins "narrow" a little when you get deeper into them, closer to the cylinder wall.
Like I said, just don't want to damage another switch.
Jason is sending me a new Thermal Switch because the Mylar covering got damaged when I installed the first switch, even though I followed all instructions on the orientation of the switch between the fins. I also used a thin piece of wood to tap it between the fins.
I'm also gonna use some Hi Temp RTV this time to provide a little lubricant.
I don't want to screw up another switch. Do most of you tap the switch in all the way until it contacts the cylinder wall, or do you just tap it in between the fins until it's snug leaving an air gap between the switch and wall?
I've re-read Jason's instructions, and it doesn't clarify which to do.
It seems to me that whether the switch has an air gap, or is all the way up against the wall, would affect operation of the switch because the cylinder wall is going to be hotter than the fins.
However, I think the fins "narrow" a little when you get deeper into them, closer to the cylinder wall.
Like I said, just don't want to damage another switch.
Thread Starter
|
Banned
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 648
Likes: 9
From: WV
Question on the Thermal (creep) switch install.
Jason is sending me a new Thermal Switch because the Mylar covering got damaged when I installed the first switch, even though I followed all instructions on the orientation of the switch between the fins. I also used a thin piece of wood to tap it between the fins.
I'm also gonna use some Hi Temp RTV this time to provide a little lubricant.
I don't want to screw up another switch. Do most of you tap the switch in all the way until it contacts the cylinder wall, or do you just tap it in between the fins until it's snug leaving an air gap between the switch and wall?
I've re-read Jason's instructions, and it doesn't clarify which to do.
It seems to me that whether the switch has an air gap, or is all the way up against the wall, would affect operation of the switch because the cylinder wall is going to be hotter than the fins.
However, I think the fins "narrow" a little when you get deeper into them, closer to the cylinder wall.
Like I said, just don't want to damage another switch.
Jason is sending me a new Thermal Switch because the Mylar covering got damaged when I installed the first switch, even though I followed all instructions on the orientation of the switch between the fins. I also used a thin piece of wood to tap it between the fins.
I'm also gonna use some Hi Temp RTV this time to provide a little lubricant.
I don't want to screw up another switch. Do most of you tap the switch in all the way until it contacts the cylinder wall, or do you just tap it in between the fins until it's snug leaving an air gap between the switch and wall?
I've re-read Jason's instructions, and it doesn't clarify which to do.
It seems to me that whether the switch has an air gap, or is all the way up against the wall, would affect operation of the switch because the cylinder wall is going to be hotter than the fins.
However, I think the fins "narrow" a little when you get deeper into them, closer to the cylinder wall.
Like I said, just don't want to damage another switch.
Jason
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,981
Likes: 48
From: Northern Illinois
The fins do have a "V" shape profile with a flat root, and they are cast with a rough finish, not machined, so there is going to be slight variances among castings, some may effortlessly seat to the root of the fins where it contacts the wall and some may not. Exercise caution when "tapping" the switch in, seat it with light pressure, the switch housing is thin metal, too much force can distort the housing, possibly interfere with the calibration, and damage the Mylar cover. The creep switch has not been reported as being affected so much by the "air gap", mainly because if its low temp calibration, its operation only varies about 5-10 degrees. If RTV is used it will fill that gap and the switch will essentially have thermal contact on 3 sides. The creep switches works extremely well for the vast majority of users and if you use a little RTV and gently push the switch in, it will work well for you also, unless you are one of the unfortunate few that experience the unexplained issue. Don't concern over this too much, if you have issues with the switch I will make it right. I'm still experimenting with the new snap switches but I don't have anything significant to publish about them yet. Whatever it takes, I will get the thermal switch figured out, because as you mentioned previously the thermal switch removes the operator error and limits the amount of extreme heat exposure the fans must endure. I do believe the thermal switch is far better than manual operation to ensure a long service life from this system. It will take a while for the "real world" life expectancy to be revealed, but I want the FCS to be the last fan system that person has to buy. April 2011 is the anniversary of my launch, so I've been shipping for 18 months and I've had very few individual fan replacements, most of them admittedly from manual switch users. Send me message at http://www.wardspartswerks.com/contact-wpw.html if you have further concerns with the creep switch install.
Jason
Jason
Jason, the new switch just arrived, thanks again.
Going out to try it again, wish me luck
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,981
Likes: 48
From: Northern Illinois
Well, just installed the new switch.
This time, I coated both the upper and lower portion of the Fins, the switch itself, and I also laid a bead of silicone against the cylinder wall itself.
I just used a piece of wood and pushed the switch in with my hand, no tapping with a mallet. It got pretty tight where the fins narrow, so rather than try to force it, I just stopped.
I think we're good, I'm gonna just leave it alone until tomorrow and let the silicone fully cure.
There is a good 3/16" to 1/4" air gap between the switch and the actual wall of the cylinder. Actually not an "air gap" anymore, cause it's filled in with silicone.
My "pushing tool"
I'm gonna post this over on my install thread also, in case someone doesn't see this thread.
This time, I coated both the upper and lower portion of the Fins, the switch itself, and I also laid a bead of silicone against the cylinder wall itself.
I just used a piece of wood and pushed the switch in with my hand, no tapping with a mallet. It got pretty tight where the fins narrow, so rather than try to force it, I just stopped.
I think we're good, I'm gonna just leave it alone until tomorrow and let the silicone fully cure.
There is a good 3/16" to 1/4" air gap between the switch and the actual wall of the cylinder. Actually not an "air gap" anymore, cause it's filled in with silicone.
My "pushing tool"
I'm gonna post this over on my install thread also, in case someone doesn't see this thread.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,981
Likes: 48
From: Northern Illinois
Jason, another question.
I hooked everything up, no blown fuses, all seems good.
I flipped the manual switch on the fan housing, and nothing, fans didn't budge. (Cold Engine)
Took the thermal "creep" switch out of the equation and the fans ran perfectly.
Started to think I had a bad thermal switch, I know it's not damaged.
But then I got to thinking, when the engine is cold, the switch is "open" so no electricity can flow thru it. The switch won't "close" until it warms up.
So, am I right in saying that on a cold engine, and having the thermal switch wired in, the manual switch won't work, correct?
I hooked everything up, no blown fuses, all seems good.
I flipped the manual switch on the fan housing, and nothing, fans didn't budge. (Cold Engine)
Took the thermal "creep" switch out of the equation and the fans ran perfectly.
Started to think I had a bad thermal switch, I know it's not damaged.
But then I got to thinking, when the engine is cold, the switch is "open" so no electricity can flow thru it. The switch won't "close" until it warms up.
So, am I right in saying that on a cold engine, and having the thermal switch wired in, the manual switch won't work, correct?
Thread Starter
|
Banned
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 648
Likes: 9
From: WV
When used, the thermal switch becomes the primary control, the manual toggle can still be used to "open" the circuit and turn the system off if desired. It does not have three control functions like a typical ON/AUTO/OFF switching system.