Spark Knock - Pinging
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 37
From: Monroe, Louisiana
the 2012 stock and stage 1 download for UC has 41 to 46° from 2750 up in the cruise and light load area. I back off to max 38° below 3500 rpms. Doesn't seem to hurt anything except the ping. There are also temp related tables that can retard the timing by temp. on the PV. You can back off the timing with a PCV in this area -4° will help. There are lots of reason for the pinging and lots of cures. If you are running 10.5 compression you definitely have to back the timing down in the high cruise area from 2750 to 3500. Still runs fine with 36° in that area.
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 910
Likes: 7
From: Shaconage
My bike ran fine stock up to about 5000 miles. It then gradually started pinging a little worst every-time I rode it. By the time I had reached 6000 miles it sounded like a ball bearing was bouncing on top of the piston under light load and with with the wife on back. I weigh 180 lb and her about 120 lb. You could literally feal the bike jurking while the pinging was happening. I tried the spraying seafoam through the intake to help with carbon build-up, no change. I then bought the xieds with no change. Dealer just kept saying it's normal or by a tuner if it bothers you that bad, oh ye, the tuner voids your warranty. I plan on keeping the bike for a while and did not want to do engine damage. They may meet EPA standards this way but it can't be good for longevity. I do agree with your statements, but most likely engine damage or failure will occur long after the warranty has expired. The fix for my problem was just being able to take a couple degrees of timing out in the problem areas.
I’m looking for some information. Now I know there are those that will offersome helpful advice and there are those “super-geniuses” out there that will onlycriticize my post. The purpose of theforum I believe is to share experiences and help each other so here we go.
I have a 2012 UC with about 6,500 miles on it. I bought it new. The only engine related modification I’ve donewas a set of 4” Rinehart slip-ons right after I took delivery of it. There was a debate at the time as to whetherit had to be re-mapped. Rinehart said “no”so I did not have it done and it has been in the back of my mind eversince. At about 5,000 miles I started hearinga noticeable “spark knock”. I always runthe highest octane fuel available.
The noise is more predominant when the bike is hot and whenI have a passenger but it is still there when I ride solo. It also becomes more prevalent when acceleratingon an uphill grade. It happens in 3rd,4th and 5th gear at varying RPM’s.
I took it to the dealer where I purchased it and have hadall my service done. They took it for aride and heard the noise. Theyrecommended a “stage one” upgrade which I’m sure you know involves a change tothe air intake and a re-map. Fault me ifyou will but I am no mechanic and I entrust my bike to my dealer and willcontinue to do so until such time as they abuse my trust.
Following their recommendation I do the upgrade. The bike seems to run much better and theknock is 99% gone. I can still on rare occasionshear it. The dealer also gave me abottle of fuel additive which I have not used.
Should I? Should Inot be worried about the noise? Hasanyone else experienced this?
I have a 2012 UC with about 6,500 miles on it. I bought it new. The only engine related modification I’ve donewas a set of 4” Rinehart slip-ons right after I took delivery of it. There was a debate at the time as to whetherit had to be re-mapped. Rinehart said “no”so I did not have it done and it has been in the back of my mind eversince. At about 5,000 miles I started hearinga noticeable “spark knock”. I always runthe highest octane fuel available.
The noise is more predominant when the bike is hot and whenI have a passenger but it is still there when I ride solo. It also becomes more prevalent when acceleratingon an uphill grade. It happens in 3rd,4th and 5th gear at varying RPM’s.
I took it to the dealer where I purchased it and have hadall my service done. They took it for aride and heard the noise. Theyrecommended a “stage one” upgrade which I’m sure you know involves a change tothe air intake and a re-map. Fault me ifyou will but I am no mechanic and I entrust my bike to my dealer and willcontinue to do so until such time as they abuse my trust.
Following their recommendation I do the upgrade. The bike seems to run much better and theknock is 99% gone. I can still on rare occasionshear it. The dealer also gave me abottle of fuel additive which I have not used.
Should I? Should Inot be worried about the noise? Hasanyone else experienced this?
My bike ran fine stock up to about 5000 miles. It then gradually started pinging a little worst every-time I rode it. By the time I had reached 6000 miles it sounded like a ball bearing was bouncing on top of the piston under light load and with with the wife on back. I weigh 180 lb and her about 120 lb. You could literally feal the bike jurking while the pinging was happening. I tried the spraying seafoam through the intake to help with carbon build-up, no change. I then bought the xieds with no change. Dealer just kept saying it's normal or by a tuner if it bothers you that bad, oh ye, the tuner voids your warranty. I plan on keeping the bike for a while and did not want to do engine damage. They may meet EPA standards this way but it can't be good for longevity. I do agree with your statements, but most likely engine damage or failure will occur long after the warranty has expired. The fix for my problem was just being able to take a couple degrees of timing out in the problem areas.
This is not an uncommon experience.
Bike runs fine, nothing has been changed on the bike, and it starts pinging.
Why did it run fine, and now it is not?
Most likely because the carbon that has built up on the pistons has increased the compression ratio, making the original tune a poor fit for the increased compression.
What most folks do is spend big bucks on a tuner and maybe a dyno. The end result being retarding the timing to reduce the pinging.
Of course, as more carbon builds up, it is very likely that the cycle will repeat.
What is far better for your engine, for performance and for the wallet is to get an air cleaner that does not feed that hot oily air from the crankcase breathers into the the air cleaner and combustion chambers.
The bike will run better with clean air and gas (not hot air, gas and oil) and it will stop building up carbon on the pistons.
And you will not have to be regularly adjusting your tune to compensate for it.
There are still a few companies making true Stage I air cleaners, DK Custom is one of them.
Take a look at all the different options HERE.
__________________
DKCustomProducts.com
DKCustomProducts.com
Last edited by DK Custom; Aug 18, 2013 at 01:35 AM.
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 30
Likes: 6
From: Glendale, AZ
I too have experienced the ping. I ride a 98 RK EVO with fuel injection. If I'm not mistaken that was the first year you could choose carb or fuel injection. It mostly happens when the weather is extremely hot as it is here in AZ. Also happens mostly on an uphill grade with a passenger. I just usually downshift and get up to a higher speed and forget about it. So it just isn't the newer bikes that have this problem.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,481
Likes: 630
From: NorCal Rocklin
This is not an uncommon experience.
Bike runs fine, nothing has been changed on the bike, and it starts pinging.
Why did it run fine, and now it is not?
Most likely because the carbon that has built up on the pistons has increased the compression ratio, making the original tune a poor fit for the increased compression.
What most folks do is spend big bucks on a tuner and maybe a dyno. The end result being retarding the timing to reduce the pinging.
Of course, as more carbon builds up, it is very likely that the cycle will repeat.
What is far better for your engine, for performance and for the wallet is to get an air cleaner that does not feed that hot oily air from the crankcase breathers into the the air cleaner and combustion chambers.
The bike will run better with clean air and gas (not hot air, gas and oil) and it will stop building up carbon on the pistons.
And you will not have to be regularly adjusting your tune to compensate for it.
There are still a few companies making true Stage I air cleaners, DK Custom is one of them.
Take a look at all the different options HERE.
Bike runs fine, nothing has been changed on the bike, and it starts pinging.
Why did it run fine, and now it is not?
Most likely because the carbon that has built up on the pistons has increased the compression ratio, making the original tune a poor fit for the increased compression.
What most folks do is spend big bucks on a tuner and maybe a dyno. The end result being retarding the timing to reduce the pinging.
Of course, as more carbon builds up, it is very likely that the cycle will repeat.
What is far better for your engine, for performance and for the wallet is to get an air cleaner that does not feed that hot oily air from the crankcase breathers into the the air cleaner and combustion chambers.
The bike will run better with clean air and gas (not hot air, gas and oil) and it will stop building up carbon on the pistons.
And you will not have to be regularly adjusting your tune to compensate for it.
There are still a few companies making true Stage I air cleaners, DK Custom is one of them.
Take a look at all the different options HERE.
Couldn't you just plug the crankcase breather tubes and be done with it.
You are right about the carbon build up on top of the pistons. I opened up my bike and had to replace the valve seals at 3k. When I saw a crust of carbon on top of my pistons and ended up cleaning that up.
Now I put seafoam directly into the pistons and re-install the old sparkplugs, run it and then put new ones in afterward. Spark plugs are only 4 bucks each
Last edited by vizcarmb; Aug 18, 2013 at 02:28 AM.
No, that crankcase pressure has to go somewhere, you plug the holes and gaskets will blow.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,090
Likes: 7
Vent the breathers to the ground. It's the easiest (and cheapest) way to keep oil out of your combustion chamber. Engines don't like to burn oil and crankcase vapors. I've seen bikes puke several ounces of yuck in a days ride. I'd much rather that go to the atmosphere than into my engine.
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 910
Likes: 7
From: Shaconage
This is not an uncommon experience.
There are still a few companies making true Stage I air cleaners, DK Custom is one of them.
Take a look at all the different options HERE.
There are still a few companies making true Stage I air cleaners, DK Custom is one of them.
Take a look at all the different options HERE.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,034
Likes: 127
I agree. If you plug it all up the first thing you know you might blow a gasket and start pumping oil from the crankcase over to the primary and then you will be scratching your head for sure.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,710
Likes: 6
From: Spokane, WA.
cooler plug
What would be the number for the cooler plug? Curious as I would like to see what that would run like in my bike.