Spark Knock - Pinging
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Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 47
Likes: 1
From: Queensbury
Spark Knock - Pinging
I’m looking for some information. Now I know there are those that will offersome helpful advice and there are those “super-geniuses” out there that will onlycriticize my post. The purpose of theforum I believe is to share experiences and help each other so here we go.
I have a 2012 UC with about 6,500 miles on it. I bought it new. The only engine related modification I’ve donewas a set of 4” Rinehart slip-ons right after I took delivery of it. There was a debate at the time as to whetherit had to be re-mapped. Rinehart said “no”so I did not have it done and it has been in the back of my mind eversince. At about 5,000 miles I started hearinga noticeable “spark knock”. I always runthe highest octane fuel available.
The noise is more predominant when the bike is hot and whenI have a passenger but it is still there when I ride solo. It also becomes more prevalent when acceleratingon an uphill grade. It happens in 3rd,4th and 5th gear at varying RPM’s.
I took it to the dealer where I purchased it and have hadall my service done. They took it for aride and heard the noise. Theyrecommended a “stage one” upgrade which I’m sure you know involves a change tothe air intake and a re-map. Fault me ifyou will but I am no mechanic and I entrust my bike to my dealer and willcontinue to do so until such time as they abuse my trust.
Following their recommendation I do the upgrade. The bike seems to run much better and theknock is 99% gone. I can still on rare occasionshear it. The dealer also gave me abottle of fuel additive which I have not used.
Should I? Should Inot be worried about the noise? Hasanyone else experienced this?
I have a 2012 UC with about 6,500 miles on it. I bought it new. The only engine related modification I’ve donewas a set of 4” Rinehart slip-ons right after I took delivery of it. There was a debate at the time as to whetherit had to be re-mapped. Rinehart said “no”so I did not have it done and it has been in the back of my mind eversince. At about 5,000 miles I started hearinga noticeable “spark knock”. I always runthe highest octane fuel available.
The noise is more predominant when the bike is hot and whenI have a passenger but it is still there when I ride solo. It also becomes more prevalent when acceleratingon an uphill grade. It happens in 3rd,4th and 5th gear at varying RPM’s.
I took it to the dealer where I purchased it and have hadall my service done. They took it for aride and heard the noise. Theyrecommended a “stage one” upgrade which I’m sure you know involves a change tothe air intake and a re-map. Fault me ifyou will but I am no mechanic and I entrust my bike to my dealer and willcontinue to do so until such time as they abuse my trust.
Following their recommendation I do the upgrade. The bike seems to run much better and theknock is 99% gone. I can still on rare occasionshear it. The dealer also gave me abottle of fuel additive which I have not used.
Should I? Should Inot be worried about the noise? Hasanyone else experienced this?
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,956
Likes: 437
From: florida
Spark knock is common on even a stock motor due to lean a/f ratios from factory. Built motors can have similar issues if timing advanced too much and static compression too high, usually just a rare rpm will produce a ping but yours especially uphill is some what common. Just make sure you don't lug the engine then roll on it too heavy (this can create it). Sounds like the new map you have now is working, added fuel im sure, if it's 99% good, your good.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,422
Likes: 14
From: Fla
Use it if you wish...
Or, don't. Prolly won't make much difference. You could get an aftermarket tuner, and apply different changes to the maps until you find a decent solution. You could also get your bike on a dyno to get the best performance out of it. Difference being, with a tuner, you can make multiple changes for just the price of purchase. On a dyno, it's cost is for a one time tune.
Or, don't. Prolly won't make much difference. You could get an aftermarket tuner, and apply different changes to the maps until you find a decent solution. You could also get your bike on a dyno to get the best performance out of it. Difference being, with a tuner, you can make multiple changes for just the price of purchase. On a dyno, it's cost is for a one time tune.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
Likes: 402
From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
what "should " happen when the bike pings, is that the ECM will retard ignition timing in an attempt to reduce this.
the result of the timing being retarded is a loss of power...usually the rider reacts by downshifting.
what you report is not unusual and my own 2009 FLHTC would ping under certain conditions - completely stock- up a 6% grade at 2800~3200 rpms
at 5000 miles this wasn't getting better and I happen to ride up 6% grades alot! the ECM's action and the required downshifting was cramping my style
my solution was to use nightrider.com xieds.
these richen my mixture about 8% under most conditions, such as cruising.
this solved the ping problem
I then swapped to my exhaust of choice...still good result for 1000 miles.
then hi flow intake...continued good results these past 15,000 miles
mike
the result of the timing being retarded is a loss of power...usually the rider reacts by downshifting.
what you report is not unusual and my own 2009 FLHTC would ping under certain conditions - completely stock- up a 6% grade at 2800~3200 rpms
at 5000 miles this wasn't getting better and I happen to ride up 6% grades alot! the ECM's action and the required downshifting was cramping my style
my solution was to use nightrider.com xieds.
these richen my mixture about 8% under most conditions, such as cruising.
this solved the ping problem
I then swapped to my exhaust of choice...still good result for 1000 miles.
then hi flow intake...continued good results these past 15,000 miles
mike
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 5
From: CT
I don't believe that is a fair statement. Not wrong, but not fair. MOCO sets fuel and spark to meet federal regulations, not to make you buy a tuner. My 2012 Road King ran good out-of-the-box. No ping..ever. Some do. Some don't. Many variables. Temperature. Elevation. Fuel. Load. Having said that I did a stage 1 with a Powervision. Bike now runs great. Much better throttle response. More power. I chose to tinker with it, but it was "good" off the floor. I realize there are some that are not, but I think the stock tunes are so lean to meet air regs that it doesn't take much variation in temp, elev, etc. to mess it up. Just my .02...
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,090
Likes: 7
If it ran fine to start with, and no changes were made causing it to ping, what changed in the engine? Most likely, the engine is burning some oil, causing some carbon to accumulate on top of the pistons, and contributing to ping. The solution? Run a can of seafoam through the throttle body while the engine is running. This will clean and lubricate the pistons, rings, and upper cylinders. If that doesn't do the trick, harley makes a cooler plug that works nicely as well.
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Grand HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,230
Likes: 477
From: Southwest VA
I don't believe that is a fair statement. Not wrong, but not fair. MOCO sets fuel and spark to meet federal regulations, not to make you buy a tuner. My 2012 Road King ran good out-of-the-box. No ping..ever. Some do. Some don't. Many variables. Temperature. Elevation. Fuel. Load. Having said that I did a stage 1 with a Powervision. Bike now runs great. Much better throttle response. More power. I chose to tinker with it, but it was "good" off the floor. I realize there are some that are not, but I think the stock tunes are so lean to meet air regs that it doesn't take much variation in temp, elev, etc. to mess it up. Just my .02...
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Grand HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,230
Likes: 477
From: Southwest VA
If it ran fine to start with, and no changes were made causing it to ping, what changed in the engine? Most likely, the engine is burning some oil, causing some carbon to accumulate on top of the pistons, and contributing to ping. The solution? Run a can of seafoam through the throttle body while the engine is running. This will clean and lubricate the pistons, rings, and upper cylinders. If that doesn't do the trick, harley makes a cooler plug that works nicely as well.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,090
Likes: 7
I have. Yes, it worked.