Some of this is driven by the Horse power race. Fully one third of the threads are talking about mods that incrementally increase horsepower or performance. Given that Victory and now Indian have thrown down the HP gauntlet, joining the Nomad and other near 2000 cc metrics, to go to the next level Harley had to pull some of the heat away. They could have tried an air fan, mock cooling fins like the new Indian, or water cooling. They chose water cooling as the best long term solution.

My own air cooled bike runs great. I can pass a line of trucks going up a hill with just the stage one, new headers/Pipes and a tuner. I don't even want new cams at this time. I don't need or want more raw throttle response, but some of you do. I tend to ride my bikes for 15 or more years, putting over 100,000 on each one. Therefore the new water cooled exhaust ports were not designed for me.

I have 4 bikes, 3 Harley's and a Triumph (sorry) and all are air cooled. I have owned metrics and Beemer's in the past, forgive me I have sinned, and the ride is not any better or worse on a big metric, just different. I prefer the air cooled, but I realize I live in the Northwet where a 70 F day is heaven, and a 90 F day is rare. But even on trips through the Channeled Scablands in 100F+, my air cooled BT is happy and so am I.

If I live long enough, or come to crave more stock raw power, then the water cooled heads probably would not slow me down, but the lowers would. I hope as this line develops, that Mother Harley designs a streamline (not steamline) radiator that does not sit on the Hwy bars.

I plan to upgrade my current main touring bike in 2025 when it reaches 125,000 miles. My sportsters, never. They are as they will remain. Basic fun machines.

Do you remember the thoughts you had when they first introduced the EVO, well the Twin Cam anyway. I have always lived by the motto, change is just change, whether it is good or bad is up to how I react.

 

I've had liquid cooling in the past and the benefits are negligibly if your sitting still. Getting as much help to motors as big as these is helpful and the way they are concealing the way the bike cools is nothing short of brilliant. They need to increase the amount of coolant that's actually being used, but that will come with time.

 

There seems to much foaming with some people over water cooling. Even HD is frightened enough they don't want to use the word water - "Twin cooling," WTF.

Just to clarify a few issues:
1. Water cooling is not new tech. It has been around much longer than all of us and is very simple and reliable. V-Rods have always been water cooled - and reliable.
2. Water cooled heads are the most bang for the buck. Porsche started with it on the 911 for that reason. It also adds the least weight and leaves the engine very simple to work on.
3. Water cooled engine in general are more reliable than pure air cooled ones. Stabilizing temperatures pays huge dividends here.
4. Reliability of water cooling? With minimal maintenance, it almost never fails. The required maintenance is so infrequent and minor that putting air in the tires looks laborious. Almost all failures can be traced to not doing this maintenance over loooonnnnggg periods of time. Generally, people that don't do this maintenace don't do anything else properly either.
5. Heat. All engines produce it as a byproduct of combustion. It has to go somewhere - on your @ss or out in the breeze through a radiator.

There is an appeal to air cooled engines and there isn't anything wrong with it, but objectively, water cooling is better. Subjectively - whatever floats your boat.

 

[QUOTE=Geoff;11728450]Yes, I guess we "purist" (what a joker) should just stick with the a 1975 Panhead hardtail.

Hey Scooter, just because someone likes the simplicty of aircooled engines doesn't mean they are stuck in the 1960's technology. Your simple solution of buying old and type casting anyone who has an opinion different from yours is condesending and disrespectful. You aren't the smartest guy in the room. In fact your inmaturity preceeds you.

So here is a lesson, Harley got to where it is at from folks who want the newest version of the old technology they can get. Up until now, MOCO has cornered that market because bikes like the VTX don't really give the buyer that kind of product and market numbers prove it. Not that the VTX isn't a good bike, it is a great performer, but it's not a Harley.

Harley knows their customer and jumping on the newest and lastest bandwagon won't sell their bikes. Oh sure, neothunderheads pretentiously put down anyone who resist change, but Harley is still around because of their old school product. Yet, is it really old school? Compare the 1995 Ultra to a 2013 and most would be hard pressed to guess the 18 year difference. Yet count how many parts are interchangeable. Harley did what it has to do to keep up without having to give away the image that sells its bikes. Is going water cooled a risk, you bet. But I think they did OK so far.

Eventually Harley may force me to make other choices, but it's likely the choice would be going all in with a Goldwing/BMW instead of staying all out with an Indian. That you have to turn this discussion into an us versus them is juvenile and doesn't add anything in an intellectual level of discussion of opinions. You have a choice, you can do better.

Beary

 

For now, I am extremely happy with my air cooled BT. It has plenty of pep with Stage 1 and a SERT, may have a non-stock cam, don't know. It is much, much faster than my 07 with a stage 1 (could be just the gear ratio change?). However, when I'm too old to hold this one up at a stop light, it would be nice to have a new TriGlide with the V-Rod motor. Lots of power and plenty of cooling liquid.

SugsPa

 

Be specific-prefer for what?

 

Yup loved my VTX 1800 (110cc) and the power to pass at will in any gear was awesome. Love my EGC,,, give it more power and get rid of the bagger wobble and it would be the cats ***. My EGC is only 88 with stage 1.

 

On a tourer I prefer water cooled because of the different climates I pass through going from state to state but I prefer air cooled for cruising around the city/state.

 

Not really liquid cooled only the exhaust ports are

 

These liquid cooled heads are just temporary, testing the waters so to speak

HD will assess how these "twin Cooled" models are being recieved by the buying public and go from there. By the looks of things they are selling well and I can assess that we shall see a completely liquid cooled motorcycle in the next 2-3 years, and the entire line-up being LC within 4-5 years from now.



cheers