Possible "dumb girl" question
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,898
From: Bedford UK
CBud, I think you will find that even if those seductive 96" heads will bolt up the benefit they will give you, from any better gas flow, will be in the upper rev range. To give you improved roll-on overtaking I suggest a big-bore kit with cams. You will get the benefit of more cubic inches, but most important of all, a boost in compression ratio. As long as that is done with a suitable cam set your stock heads will be fine.
To fit a gear-driven set of cams requires that your crankshaft meets certain run-out numbers, which can only be checked with the cam chest apart. There is no real benefit from them and an upgrade chain-drive camset will bolt right in, with hydraulic tensioners.
As you already have used Fuel Moto, give them a call. They can supply a box full of all the goodies you need, including cams, new tensioner set-up, bigger cylinders, gaskets - a one-stop shop! They can also advise on the most suitable cams and CR, as well as any changes to your current tuner. I reckon you will find the performance boost you are after, plus plenty left over! Now what more could a girl want?!
To fit a gear-driven set of cams requires that your crankshaft meets certain run-out numbers, which can only be checked with the cam chest apart. There is no real benefit from them and an upgrade chain-drive camset will bolt right in, with hydraulic tensioners.
As you already have used Fuel Moto, give them a call. They can supply a box full of all the goodies you need, including cams, new tensioner set-up, bigger cylinders, gaskets - a one-stop shop! They can also advise on the most suitable cams and CR, as well as any changes to your current tuner. I reckon you will find the performance boost you are after, plus plenty left over! Now what more could a girl want?!
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 114
From: Jackson, Ohio
CBUD, use components that complement each other if nothing else.
Id forget the gear drives as they are cost prohibitive for what you need IMO. I would rather spend the money on a better programmer than gears drives. A SEPST or TTS Mastertune allows you much more control for completely tuning your bike.
Make sure your cams match the compression ratio of your pistons. Heads affect compression as well since they offer different volumes (ccs) in the combustion chamber. It all needs to work together. If it were my money on your bike, Id bore your stock cylinders to a set of 10.0:1 to 10.5:1 compression pistons using your stock heads with cams thatll pull to around 6,000 rpms.
Harleys SE211 cams work well with Harleys 10.25:1 pistons (P/N 22661-99A) using stock heads and pushrods. I like using Harley parts as they have base maps for their stuff and I get a 20% discount plus Ive never needed anything more than they offer for performance or durability.
Bump your oil pressure a little with the use of an aftermarket spring in your oil pump and change the cam bearings.
The 4 stroke 88/95ers respond well to 2 into 1 headers, good choice .Just dont go too big or you lose bottom end. Standard 1 ž primary tubes are fine.
Mainboom, you complain how Harleys have no pop and by the looks of your signature, you have done everything to your bike to take bottom end away from it. Then you install the most antiquated tuner available on it as well. Nothing like bad advice
Id forget the gear drives as they are cost prohibitive for what you need IMO. I would rather spend the money on a better programmer than gears drives. A SEPST or TTS Mastertune allows you much more control for completely tuning your bike.
Make sure your cams match the compression ratio of your pistons. Heads affect compression as well since they offer different volumes (ccs) in the combustion chamber. It all needs to work together. If it were my money on your bike, Id bore your stock cylinders to a set of 10.0:1 to 10.5:1 compression pistons using your stock heads with cams thatll pull to around 6,000 rpms.
Harleys SE211 cams work well with Harleys 10.25:1 pistons (P/N 22661-99A) using stock heads and pushrods. I like using Harley parts as they have base maps for their stuff and I get a 20% discount plus Ive never needed anything more than they offer for performance or durability.
Bump your oil pressure a little with the use of an aftermarket spring in your oil pump and change the cam bearings.
The 4 stroke 88/95ers respond well to 2 into 1 headers, good choice .Just dont go too big or you lose bottom end. Standard 1 ž primary tubes are fine.
Mainboom, you complain how Harleys have no pop and by the looks of your signature, you have done everything to your bike to take bottom end away from it. Then you install the most antiquated tuner available on it as well. Nothing like bad advice
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,672
Likes: 18
From: Orange, VA,
I will chime in here, put in whatever cams you want, just replace the tensioner shoes when you do the cams, you dont put many miles on your bike so it will be years before you ever have to replace them again. I put SE 204 cams in my bike and just finished a S&S 97 inch big bore kit, the biggest difference I felt was after the big bore kit, the cams gave it a little more, but the big bore made the most difference. Now that might be because I did cams first, and big bore second, but thats what I would do again. I broke her in this weekend and got on her a couple times yesterday, wow she really pulls now, love riding it even more now.
Also, you do have the best lower end motor that HD has produced, 99 to 02 had forged bottom ends with Timkin crank bearings, after everything I have read I decided to keep my 99 and rebuild and upgrade as I go. And 06 heads will bolt on your motor, they breath better but you won't get as big a kick as you will with cams and a big bore. I did not have the money to do everything at once, so I did cams first and took care of everything in the cam chest, then the big bore, if you can get 06 heads have them put on while they are doing the big bore. You will really enjoy it more after the mods, I know I am
Also, you do have the best lower end motor that HD has produced, 99 to 02 had forged bottom ends with Timkin crank bearings, after everything I have read I decided to keep my 99 and rebuild and upgrade as I go. And 06 heads will bolt on your motor, they breath better but you won't get as big a kick as you will with cams and a big bore. I did not have the money to do everything at once, so I did cams first and took care of everything in the cam chest, then the big bore, if you can get 06 heads have them put on while they are doing the big bore. You will really enjoy it more after the mods, I know I am
Thread Starter
|
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 925
Likes: 15
From: So. Fla.
At this point, I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestions and comments. I'm not looking to replace the speed/power of my Bandit, just obtain a little more "oomph." I don't want to sell her. I want to keep her and ride her to Colorado next summer. So Big Bore it is for the best bang for the buck. As Oldhippie pointed out, I like to tinker.
To Graham--FM is at $1900 for the hydraulic chain tensioners and 98-inch big bore kit. I'd still need to throw $200-$300 at cams. I already checked. Too rich for my blood right now. Thanks though! I think they are great to deal with and love the Stage 1 so far. As far as what else a girl could want, I'll leave that over on the QOTR side of the forums.
To KILRBUSA: I'm not looking for a Hyabusa, or for a seat and handlebars to be "confident." As it is I'm a little cocky at times and DH is probably glad it doesn't go as fast as my Bandit. I am looking for a seat though because this one is cracking. Honestly, I don't know what happened to it other than it happened right after Leesburg. What happens in Leesburg, right?
To Oldhippie, dawg and Stiggy: Exactly the type of information I was looking for. If its not worth the heads, I won't buy 'em. I have other things to spend $$$ on, like a new helmet possibly. And now I have a shopping goal or target, if you will.
To mainboom150: I know my RKC will not come close to my Bandit in terms of pop, top-end and acceleration out of the gate, er toll plaza...But thanks for sticking up for me. I think there's a BMW K1600GT in my distant future (6 years at least), but my RKC and Bandit will be with me until at least then and hopefully longer.
To Graham--FM is at $1900 for the hydraulic chain tensioners and 98-inch big bore kit. I'd still need to throw $200-$300 at cams. I already checked. Too rich for my blood right now. Thanks though! I think they are great to deal with and love the Stage 1 so far. As far as what else a girl could want, I'll leave that over on the QOTR side of the forums.
To KILRBUSA: I'm not looking for a Hyabusa, or for a seat and handlebars to be "confident." As it is I'm a little cocky at times and DH is probably glad it doesn't go as fast as my Bandit. I am looking for a seat though because this one is cracking. Honestly, I don't know what happened to it other than it happened right after Leesburg. What happens in Leesburg, right?
To Oldhippie, dawg and Stiggy: Exactly the type of information I was looking for. If its not worth the heads, I won't buy 'em. I have other things to spend $$$ on, like a new helmet possibly. And now I have a shopping goal or target, if you will.
To mainboom150: I know my RKC will not come close to my Bandit in terms of pop, top-end and acceleration out of the gate, er toll plaza...But thanks for sticking up for me. I think there's a BMW K1600GT in my distant future (6 years at least), but my RKC and Bandit will be with me until at least then and hopefully longer.
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,898
From: Bedford UK
Hi CBud! You could look at doing things in two easy stages. I suggest doing a change of cams with the hydraulic tensioner conversion first, partly because that is why you started this discussion, so it deals with your concern, but also because cams will give you a significant improvement in performance.
Follow that later, by the big bore kit, if and when you decide you need even more. Allow me to give you a caution, as I am sure many others can! I started with a bone stock bike, then stage 1, then a stroker kit (for my Evo), more recently an S&S 107" engine. So if you plan for a progressive development, you will ease your path to the next step!
Follow that later, by the big bore kit, if and when you decide you need even more. Allow me to give you a caution, as I am sure many others can! I started with a bone stock bike, then stage 1, then a stroker kit (for my Evo), more recently an S&S 107" engine. So if you plan for a progressive development, you will ease your path to the next step!
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 932
Likes: 14
From: CENTRAL IL
This is of absolutely no help to anyone in this thread, but its something I picked up on and it's not meant to flame anybody but I just gotta say it. To the OP it says you are from Florida and you have a 2002 that you've had since 2002 and you haven't hit 20k miles? Then there is another with an 04 from Arizona and hasn't hit 25k miles. Geez, I work all the time and don't get to ride that much, live in New England where there is only a few months to ride all year and I've got an 08 ready to hit 40k miles. How do you guys live in year round riding country and have older bikes with no mileage?
Anyhow, back to the question at hand. If it were me and I had an 02 with the good crank I'd go gears. I'd also freshen things up seeing as you probably have the plastic breathers. I'd do Andrews 26g and a 95" kit on the cheap with HD flat tops and an .030 head gasket which would give a slight bump in compression. If you chose headwork, folks like Bean at BigBoyz could street port and set for 9.5:1 compression which the 26g works best at. Do the work yourself and save a ton. Could do all for about $8-900
Anyhow, back to the question at hand. If it were me and I had an 02 with the good crank I'd go gears. I'd also freshen things up seeing as you probably have the plastic breathers. I'd do Andrews 26g and a 95" kit on the cheap with HD flat tops and an .030 head gasket which would give a slight bump in compression. If you chose headwork, folks like Bean at BigBoyz could street port and set for 9.5:1 compression which the 26g works best at. Do the work yourself and save a ton. Could do all for about $8-900
harleys
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,020
Likes: 69
From: Twin Cities, MN
I'm a 300# guy and my 88" with the cams and stage one set up has no problems keeping up with my friends on their 96" and 103" stock motors. And I outweight them by 100#'s!
We all want different things out of our bikes, but this Andrews 21 (26 also) is all I needed for improved performance in the RPM's I use for everyday riding.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,129
Likes: 143
From: Santa Cruz
Good luck in your quest! Andrews 21s are a good 88 bagger bolt-in but not enough in even a mild 95. I would stay away from the hydraulic upgrade. Nearly a total waste of $ in an 88 imho. If anything, go gears! But really not a big deal to check them every 15-20K either. Pull the cover every year or two? Finally had to sell my last Ninja a couple years ago because my old sick brain & body couldn't keep up. Harleys are fun in a different way (had at least one since '90) but they always have been underpowered out of the box. Triumphs rocked...
Last edited by 0ldhippie; Sep 16, 2013 at 12:32 PM.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
