OEM pushrods vs. adjustable on cam swap
Thread Starter
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Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,784
Likes: 100
From: Pasadena TX
Adjustables are handy but usually not necessary with a bolt-in (stock base circle) cam like 21/26. No one is gonna tell the weight difference on a HD street motor and nuts coming lose is rare (usually an installation issue). But since ya are going through the top; Bore and headwork is only 4 bolts away...
Nothing wrong in re-using the Stock OE Pushrods on a simple bolt in cam swap with the cams having the same base circle.
Now if you were changing head gaskets and using a different base circle cam you can still get the SE Perfect Fit Pushrods.
I used the SE Perfect Fit Pushrods in my 09 FLHT 103ci Stage 4 build, I've just never been a fan of adjustable pushrods though, not that there's anything wrong with them as there are thousands that use them.
It's just a personal preference for me not to use them.
Now if you were changing head gaskets and using a different base circle cam you can still get the SE Perfect Fit Pushrods.
I used the SE Perfect Fit Pushrods in my 09 FLHT 103ci Stage 4 build, I've just never been a fan of adjustable pushrods though, not that there's anything wrong with them as there are thousands that use them.
It's just a personal preference for me not to use them.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 6,191
Likes: 2,423
From: USA
~$140 and you can get the whole set of adjustable pushrods and new covers and seals from Harley. In and out pretty quickly this way.
Staying with the oem one piece rods will cost you ~40 in gaskets and seals, and take several extra hours.
I personally just did this on my 04 RK, and went the longer cheaper route. Not so much because I wanted to save the money, but because I wanted to inspect the rocker boxes and see how things looked.
The front cylinder is easy, the rear not so easy. In fact, mine had a minor clearance problem with the bolts. You can make it easier by removing the swing arm bolt and lowering the rear of the engine, but my how the job grows this way.
So basically, you're saving about $100, but adding several hours of work. You need to decide which you value more.
As for having adjustable pushrods break, I've yet to have a problem with adjustable pushrods on other engines (no personal Harley experience). When I have had pushrod failures, it was invariably from the valve or rocker sticking, causing the pushrod to buckle.
Staying with the oem one piece rods will cost you ~40 in gaskets and seals, and take several extra hours.
I personally just did this on my 04 RK, and went the longer cheaper route. Not so much because I wanted to save the money, but because I wanted to inspect the rocker boxes and see how things looked.
The front cylinder is easy, the rear not so easy. In fact, mine had a minor clearance problem with the bolts. You can make it easier by removing the swing arm bolt and lowering the rear of the engine, but my how the job grows this way.
So basically, you're saving about $100, but adding several hours of work. You need to decide which you value more.
As for having adjustable pushrods break, I've yet to have a problem with adjustable pushrods on other engines (no personal Harley experience). When I have had pushrod failures, it was invariably from the valve or rocker sticking, causing the pushrod to buckle.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,913
Likes: 2,542
Adjustible PR's will pay for themselves later on down the road. Like the next time you want to inspect or replace your tensioners, or even another cam swap. By all means, replace the leaky gasket, but think further down the road and consider adj. PR's. Look at Smith Brothers fast install PR's. And as stated earlier, adj. PR's coming loose, is a install issue, not a PR issue.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,779
Likes: 2,609
From: san antonio
There is nothing fast about Smith Brothers tapered quick install pushrods; they are the best available but a PITA to install and adjust. Smith Brothers also recommends the use of red Loctite to insure adjustor nuts coming loose.
There were issues with the quality of the adjustor nuts on the SE Tapered Quick Install pushrods when they were released a few years back. The nuts were of poor quality and would hairline crack when tightened and if cracked, would come loose in the first few mile after installing. Some of the nuts would break; much better than hairline cracking; at least the installer knew there was a problem. It appears that the MoCo jumped on this right away and you don't hear those stories any more.
There should be no reason to remove the swing arm bolt and lower the motor to remove the rear pushrods. Admittedly, working room is tight and while it appears that the rocker support won't come out; it will. Having said that, it is not necessary to remove the rocker support to remove the rear cylinder pushrods. The motor is rubber mounted and using a 2x4 one can move the motor down a bit or to the left or right; not much but if clearance becomes an issue; a 2x4 will solve the problem. A smart move while in the rocker box is to replace the early head breathers with the '10 version. The breathers are stamped steel, lower profile with shorter bolts. The rear cylinder rocker support removal becomes a piece of cake with the new breather installed.
Whether one decides to use adjustable or OEM pushrods for a "bolt in" cam install boils down to the trade off between labor and cost; spend more money and less labor or visa versa. Future motor upgrades may be a factor as some have pointed out but the basic factors in making the decision are time and cost.
There were issues with the quality of the adjustor nuts on the SE Tapered Quick Install pushrods when they were released a few years back. The nuts were of poor quality and would hairline crack when tightened and if cracked, would come loose in the first few mile after installing. Some of the nuts would break; much better than hairline cracking; at least the installer knew there was a problem. It appears that the MoCo jumped on this right away and you don't hear those stories any more.
There should be no reason to remove the swing arm bolt and lower the motor to remove the rear pushrods. Admittedly, working room is tight and while it appears that the rocker support won't come out; it will. Having said that, it is not necessary to remove the rocker support to remove the rear cylinder pushrods. The motor is rubber mounted and using a 2x4 one can move the motor down a bit or to the left or right; not much but if clearance becomes an issue; a 2x4 will solve the problem. A smart move while in the rocker box is to replace the early head breathers with the '10 version. The breathers are stamped steel, lower profile with shorter bolts. The rear cylinder rocker support removal becomes a piece of cake with the new breather installed.
Whether one decides to use adjustable or OEM pushrods for a "bolt in" cam install boils down to the trade off between labor and cost; spend more money and less labor or visa versa. Future motor upgrades may be a factor as some have pointed out but the basic factors in making the decision are time and cost.
Thread Starter
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Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,784
Likes: 100
From: Pasadena TX
This thread is in conjunction with a future hydraulic tensioner/conversion cam swap I'm working towards. I'm acquiring parts as budget allows. I have no intention of installing a BB kit, and I intend to use a 21N cam, same base circle as the stock cam. I can't see spending an extra $150 or more for adjustables when my stockers will do. I can use that money on something else, like inner bearing remover/installer.
Tourer
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 420
Likes: 60
From: Central IL
The pros and cons seem to be well covered here. I did a cam install a few years ago 2006 EG and used the stock push rods with no problems. If I were in your shoes and the tank and rocker cover had to come off anyway then I would probably go with the stockers unless future mods were planned.
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 736
Likes: 1
From: Iowa
There is nothing fast about Smith Brothers tapered quick install pushrods; they are the best available but a PITA to install and adjust. Smith Brothers also recommends the use of red Loctite to insure adjustor nuts coming loose.
There were issues with the quality of the adjustor nuts on the SE Tapered Quick Install pushrods when they were released a few years back. The nuts were of poor quality and would hairline crack when tightened and if cracked, would come loose in the first few mile after installing. Some of the nuts would break; much better than hairline cracking; at least the installer knew there was a problem. It appears that the MoCo jumped on this right away and you don't hear those stories any more.
There should be no reason to remove the swing arm bolt and lower the motor to remove the rear pushrods. Admittedly, working room is tight and while it appears that the rocker support won't come out; it will. Having said that, it is not necessary to remove the rocker support to remove the rear cylinder pushrods. The motor is rubber mounted and using a 2x4 one can move the motor down a bit or to the left or right; not much but if clearance becomes an issue; a 2x4 will solve the problem. A smart move while in the rocker box is to replace the early head breathers with the '10 version. The breathers are stamped steel, lower profile with shorter bolts. The rear cylinder rocker support removal becomes a piece of cake with the new breather installed.
Whether one decides to use adjustable or OEM pushrods for a "bolt in" cam install boils down to the trade off between labor and cost; spend more money and less labor or visa versa. Future motor upgrades may be a factor as some have pointed out but the basic factors in making the decision are time and cost.
There were issues with the quality of the adjustor nuts on the SE Tapered Quick Install pushrods when they were released a few years back. The nuts were of poor quality and would hairline crack when tightened and if cracked, would come loose in the first few mile after installing. Some of the nuts would break; much better than hairline cracking; at least the installer knew there was a problem. It appears that the MoCo jumped on this right away and you don't hear those stories any more.
There should be no reason to remove the swing arm bolt and lower the motor to remove the rear pushrods. Admittedly, working room is tight and while it appears that the rocker support won't come out; it will. Having said that, it is not necessary to remove the rocker support to remove the rear cylinder pushrods. The motor is rubber mounted and using a 2x4 one can move the motor down a bit or to the left or right; not much but if clearance becomes an issue; a 2x4 will solve the problem. A smart move while in the rocker box is to replace the early head breathers with the '10 version. The breathers are stamped steel, lower profile with shorter bolts. The rear cylinder rocker support removal becomes a piece of cake with the new breather installed.
Whether one decides to use adjustable or OEM pushrods for a "bolt in" cam install boils down to the trade off between labor and cost; spend more money and less labor or visa versa. Future motor upgrades may be a factor as some have pointed out but the basic factors in making the decision are time and cost.
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HDF Community Team
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 6,191
Likes: 2,423
From: USA
On my 04 RK, the bolts on the left hand side of the rear cylinder were about 1-2 threads too long to actually clear the frame. From the rocker cover to the rocker arms. It required a fair bit of fiddling and figuring to get them out. Not everyone's is going to be that way, but some will.