Retarded timing will usually cause the rpms to drop?

Power stoichiometric?


Holy *****......


OP, your bike is fine as is. Are you happy with how it runs? If you'd like to have your bike run smoother, cooler, and stronger you can add a tuner which will allow you to make the necessary changes to your ECM to achieve those things.

The Namz kit will do nothing but add an nearly insignificant amount of fuel to the area(s) of the map that need it least. It's not what you're looking for, and a waste of money.

 

And what are the ranges you look for?

 

Stoichiometric S T O I.... e i e i o

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

 

No point learning to spell it when you don't know what it is.

 

Thanks Mike. Did you notice a cooler operating temp or improved performance? I wasn't sure if I was going to open a can of worms or not with this post. The IED's appear to be allot cheaper than a fuel manager but are they any where near as effective. I've gone through this with my Yamaha Nytro snowmobile after upgrading exhaust and intake with aftermarket. I had a PC III on my last Soft tail and tuning was pretty easy but once again it was over $300. not including the V&H's and Twin velocity intake. I do run Amsoil and know that I can withstand running higher temps than conventional oil. As for not having any "steep grades" around here the Rockies are a 4 hr. ride from here and they do make up a portion of my riding season. I do understand AFR and would like to have it running at peak performance but not at the cost of excessive wear or heat. Thanks to all for input so far and still to come. I'm still not sold either way. Is there a sticky or a thread on reading O2 with multimeter?

 

05 you probably now this, but others may not:

under conditions when spark timing is retarded, less power per stroke is made*.
so if the bike is pulling a load...the rpms will drop.

at which point most riders will downshift...rpms raise, mechanical advantage is gained and the spark timing will then be more advanced and more power per stroke.


Mike

*it takes about 3000 milliseconds for the fuel/air mixture to burn ( not "explode") and expand in the cylinder, pushing the piston down the bore.
as rpms increase, the spark timing is "advanced" so that the expanding gasses are pushing the piston down the bore at the optimal time for the most force.
too early and the piston is coming up and the expanding gasses will try to push the piston back down shocking the crank**, rather than over the top and down.
too late and the moment is lost.
kinda like you trying to kick a bicycle pedal which is rotating.

at low rpms retarded timing can enhance torque, on my '53 FL spark timing is controlled by the rider with the left grip- on old cars, spark timin was often controlled by a lever on the steering wheel.
The operator is far more active on an older machine.

** this is why lugging the motor can turn lower end bearings to dust

 

I live in PHX, it's always hot and sitting on top of a 96" makes more heat than my other older Harleys with smaller motors and less precise fuel mixtures.
The 96" EFI also makes more power per cc than the older bikes (the 74" panheads make about 38 HP at the rear wheel).
The motor may be hotter without xieds, but I didn't measure- i bought it in October so had 6 or 7 months before it got hot.

The biggest difference for heat is fairing lowers on the bike decrease oil pan temps by about 25şF ( 12şC ?) measured on a 105ş ambient day. this is a result of increased airflow over the motor.
BUT that removed heat can feel like a blow dryer on the right thigh


performance: the xieds really only affect the ECM under part-throttle cruising conditions. which is about 90% of riding.
When whacking the throttle open ( WOT/ WFO) or when starting a cold bike, they are less active as the ECM is prioritizing input from other sensors.
This means that WOT takes the o2 sensor out of consideration and the rider could get some nasty pinging.


on my bike ( 09 FLHTC, 96"), when completely stock and after break in ( 5000 miles ( 8000 km), my bike would persistently ping under load- 2800-3200 rpms up 6% grades. We have alot of 6% grades in Arizona.

installing xieds solved that- and i ran that way for about 1000 miles.

then I swapped to hi flow exhaust for 1000, still to good result.

and finally to a high flow air cleaner, at which point the increased flow into and out of the motor gave a useable power gain. and still no pinging about 10,00 miles later.

I leave my Harley's at stage 1.

a rider looking to add cams or headwork later could instead look at installing a tuner system which can be adjusted as the motor is modified.

The fixed value xieds on my bike enrichen the mixture about 8%, the rev limit is unchanged.
This approach only affects the air'fuel mixture- as pointed out below by Fabrik8r, many other factors may effect pre-ignition.


how do it do?:

o2 sensors ( once heated above about 600şF) on your 2007 react to the exhaust gasses so as to produce voltage, this voltage from the sensor is read by the ECM and the ECM bases fuel mixture based on that. the Xieds are simply a resistor network which slightly reduces the voltage to the ECM.
The result is that the ECM makes the mixture slightly richer than it would normally be.

Usual voltage produced under stoich is .45 volts DC

if the ECM "saw" .4 volts it would add fuel, if it "saw" 5.5 volts it would reduce fuel.


this can be measured in real time with a voltmeter and i am sometimes seen running around my neighborhood with a big Fluke meter taped to the bars on a Classic and an o2 sensor in the exhaust. my old Cadillacs also get o2 sensor bungs welded in the exhaust when work is done.

slight resistance from bad wire connections from all the sensors ( most run under 5 volts) or at the ECM connector ( or the added connection of a piggyback tuner) can cause interesting problems


mike

 

Pinging can also be a symptom of too much timing advance, bad fuel, too much compression, wrong heat range spark plugs, and I'm sure there are some others. My point is simply if you want to know how long a stick is, don't weigh it. Use the correct measuring method for what you are trying to find out. When trying to find out "is my tune condition lean", you measure residual oxygen in the exhaust gas by means of an O2 sensor. The Stoichiometric value for gasoline is 14.69 something, something, something to 1; its typically rounded up to 14.7:1 and is widely accepted in the scientific and automotive communities. There is only one stoichiometric value for a given fuel, no such thing as "power stoichiometric". Many people believe that anything leaner than their pappy's carbureted shovel head is lean, when in fact legitimate "lean" for gasoline must be above stoichiometric. And that nonsense about a richer AFR burning more completely is totally ridiculous, completely opposite of scientific facts regarding stoichiometry. But I'm just a middle aged coot with 1 motorcycle, so I definitely don't know anything.

OP before buying anything else, get yourself a pair of waders and a BS filter.

 

Sound advice.

There's much more to engine detonation than "too lean", and you can't do squat about it without a real tuner.

 

Well I guess I should fill you guys in. I recently purchased this bike with all of the accessories on it with 21000 km's total (approx. 13000miles). The original owner obviously not too mech inclined and had all the work or add ons done at a local HD dealer when ever the bike was in for a oil or tire change. Long story short I just called them for history of work done and they made my frikken day. It's all screaming Eagle slip on's and intake with a V&H Fuelpac. Sure enough I went out and pulled the cover and there it was. Thanks for all the info I guess I'll just have to wait and see when the snow melts in maybe 2 1/2 months if this thing runs as good as it sounds. I know a PCIII with add ons on my Heritage made a huge difference. I guess I'll save the $ from the IED's for some more bling...