Thundermax ECM - any downsides (other than cost?)
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 575
Likes: 4
From: SouthWestern Ontario
Naw, just get in the band wagon it's more fun....��. I installed a used thunder max on my 05 ultra and it was easy, and it woke it up, all in was about 450, and I can move it to the next bike or remove and re sell, only dis advantage is my local tuner "only does Power vision " but mine runs great with a canned map, and wide range sensors in true dual pipes
I would agree that a ThunderMax is not for everyone and would never say it is the best thing out there but for some of us it was a perfect fit. Since I first initiated mine with a pre-loaded map from Frank at Drago's, I have done nothing but ride. Haven't had it on a dyno but the increase in torque and horsepower is obvious. I regularly check my plug condition and have what I would call consistant coloring that indicates an optimal AFM. On group rides, I am getting better fuel mileage than the others, costing less to fill after the rides.
The map selection is key and I had no input there. Frank knew from experience what was going to work with my cams, pipe, air intake selection for my 103 and hit it right on. It did run a bit rich on initial start-up but after a few rides the wide band O2 sensors relayed real time data to the ThunderMax and auto corrected the AFM. I had no pinging and timing seems to be on the money.
I'm the kind of guy that doesn't mind tinkering but just haven't had the need to.
It kinda makes me wonder sometimes what aftermarket ECM will emerge as the clear cut winner but likely the constantly changing technology will make them all obsolete before long.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,129
Likes: 143
From: Santa Cruz
While you may know the connections, What you don't seem to understand is the operation. The Dynojet autotune unit is for logging the tune/map. My understanding is ,it does not control or change anything (neither does the PV, unless ya flash a different map/tune)). After final tuning (flashing a map/tune) it can/should be unhooked along with the PV unit (unless ya want to monitor stuff). The stock reflashed ecm operates along with the stock "narrow band" o2s and all other sensors. The PV autotune (basic or pro) is a tuning tool. There is no need for any tuning or changes once a proper tune/map is flashed to the ecm.
Last edited by 0ldhippie; Mar 27, 2014 at 01:21 PM.
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 763
Likes: 1
From: Calgary, Canada
While you may know the connections, What you don't seem to understand is the operation. The Dynojet autotune unit is for logging the tune/map. My understanding is ,it does not control or change anything (neither does the PV, unless ya flash a different map/tune)). After final tuning (flashing a map/tune) it can/should be unhooked along with the PV unit (unless ya want to monitor stuff). The stock reflashed ecm operates along with the stock "narrow band" o2s and all other sensors. The PV autotune (basic or pro) is a tuning tool. There is no need for any tuning or changes once a proper tune/map is flashed to the ecm.
Dyna makes a mounting kit for the PV which allows you to ride, tune and re-write the map as your riding (stopped of course) as it is learning your riding habits.
Great idea.
As eventually there will be very little difference after about 10 flashes over 4 or 5 months.
From what I have learned from their site and guides and videos the Autotune module still learns and autocorrects from the flashed map. this is why you can purge all cached information with the PV after flashing the map into the ECM/ECU. By continually doing this with the PV eventually the bracketing of the information becomes a constant with minimal or no change due to your riding style. this means that the auto tune is only going to change tuning because of atmospheric conditions and not riding styles.
As I said Great idea for the constant reflashing of the ECM/ECU with the PV.
I have the Thundermax as it was the one that I found out about first and research on. I wanted a ECU/ECM replacement as i come form an industry where we try to remove as many points of failure in a system as we can.
An ECU, O2 Sensor are all single points of failure. bu adding the Autotune, PV Stock ECU, O2 Sensor, they are all points of failure but trouble shooting is going to be more difficult.
My Question is.
How much data is kept before over writing in the Thundermax or Auto tune?
how much memory is in the Autotune or thundermax to be used as cached memory?
Is the PV the only unit which caches the Data when connected to the auto tune? If so then to do what was mentioned above you have to ride with the PV all the time to stabilise the MAP flashes for the riding style.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,532
Likes: 132
From: SoCal
I don't think the PV auto tune will change for atmospheric pressure on the written map as you ride. It has no need because the other sensors are doing that instantly. So how can it change for something that is being compensated for by the manifold absolute pressure sensor? Maybe it would log data for humidity changes, etc due to slight differences in the way the bike would run in the new conditions but then the next time if the conditions aren't exactly like they were the last time you rode the mapping would be off for the new atmospheric conditions. PV auto tune does not make real time changes.
Last edited by qtrracer; Mar 27, 2014 at 02:29 PM.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,129
Likes: 143
From: Santa Cruz
Again, flash tuners, PV/TTS/SEPT, log info and allow reflashing of the ECM. Unlike add-ons, they DO NOT control or change anything, even if they are plugged in. The ECM, stock or Thundermax, controls fuel-ratio, timing and many other things from map/tune calculations with info from the various sensors. "Auto-tuning" is kind of a misnomer.
As eventually there will be very little difference after about 10 flashes over 4 or 5 months.
From what I have learned from their site and guides and videos the Autotune module still learns and autocorrects from the flashed map. this is why you can purge all cached information with the PV after flashing the map into the ECM/ECU. By continually doing this with the PV eventually the bracketing of the information becomes a constant with minimal or no change due to your riding style. this means that the auto tune is only going to change tuning because of atmospheric conditions and not riding styles.
From what I have learned from their site and guides and videos the Autotune module still learns and autocorrects from the flashed map. this is why you can purge all cached information with the PV after flashing the map into the ECM/ECU. By continually doing this with the PV eventually the bracketing of the information becomes a constant with minimal or no change due to your riding style. this means that the auto tune is only going to change tuning because of atmospheric conditions and not riding styles.
Tourer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
From: Spokane Valley, Washington State
I have 4 years and 50 k on a thundermax with a 2010 Ultra/ported heads/103build with 255 cam. I have never had an issue with the TMax. Each time I have changed something, heads, exhaust, etc., in just a few minutes of riding the bike tuned for the changes and runs perfect. Good starting, good idle speed, excellent throttle response, no decel popping, decent mileage, etc....it is a great tuner.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Club Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,693
Likes: 461
Really? I adjusted the timing with my T Max to get ride of a slight detonation under heavy load problem. Have you ever used a T Max?