PV tuning for cams?
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Tourer
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 255
Likes: 1
From: gilbert, az
FX4, i understand what your saying but its a curve and if the baseline curve makes more power than it dose now from say 2000 rpm till say 3500 its still going to make more power regardless of the exhaust set up. yes i do know i gave up some power putting those pipes on but its minimal as i actually gained in the butt dyno from stock to after putting them on with an a/c and a tune from dyno jet.
I think since i had issues using the auto tune basic before even though i figured it out ill take it to nick trask of trask turbos. He must be a good tuner if he developed a turbo system and tunes them too many bikes around here with turbos by him.
I think since i had issues using the auto tune basic before even though i figured it out ill take it to nick trask of trask turbos. He must be a good tuner if he developed a turbo system and tunes them too many bikes around here with turbos by him.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
No. While I am certainly not a cam expert I did have an extremely lengthy discussion about cams with the guy that did my heads who just happens to be one of the top Harley drag bike engine builders in the country. Cams do not make power they shape it. You have X amount of available power in an engine build, the cams shape where the power is put. You don't make power with cams.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 255
Likes: 1
From: gilbert, az
wail choosing the right cam for a set up is #1 important thing but as i see it there the heart of how an engine runs and how much power it makes. to small and it wont breath enough intake charge to much and it will choke out the flame being to rich cams are the direct relation between how much fuel/air charge is pulled into the cylinder creating more power when the ignition stroke hit.... so as your engine builder says it shapes it is true thus why there are so many cams out there different overlaps lifts and durations to shape the power, they are still direct relation to creating more power. everything else is to support that power
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
Autotunes aren't going to help when you add new cams. Autotunes automatically retard timing 4' and also lock down spark tables.
The suggested attack after you get the VEs correct with the new cams is to use Log Tuner which where you lock down the AFR/VE settings and work on timing. Then you get the ability to maximize the timing for the new cams.
You aren't losing a lot not going with FM other than their consulting help, because most of the FM supplied tunes these days are just Dynojet tunes anyway. They aren't adding any added tuning value in most cases other than the most popular set-ups with their gear where they had a identical mule bike they used to fine tune.
The suggested attack after you get the VEs correct with the new cams is to use Log Tuner which where you lock down the AFR/VE settings and work on timing. Then you get the ability to maximize the timing for the new cams.
You aren't losing a lot not going with FM other than their consulting help, because most of the FM supplied tunes these days are just Dynojet tunes anyway. They aren't adding any added tuning value in most cases other than the most popular set-ups with their gear where they had a identical mule bike they used to fine tune.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
Not my engine builder, although he is an engine builder for a lot of drag racers. He was the machinist that ported my heads and installed the ACRs. I disagree with your thesis. It's how I got into this discussion with him. It turned into an hour long discussion while he educated me. We also went over different cam profiles and what they would do for me. He really wanted me to run the 204s in my application but finally conceded the 255s should work well for my personal requirements. Just by a stroke of luck the 255s do really well with the head work he did for me and they pull strong from 2500 RPMs to redline but because of the head work everything really turns on at 3000 RPMs. The 255s give me the low end grunt. I never need to shift out of 6th gear from 60 MPH on up. That was my goal. It just happens I also walk away from CVO 110 bikes because of the compression bump and head work give me the power to do it.
Road Master
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 992
Likes: 2
From: TN
No. While I am certainly not a cam expert I did have an extremely lengthy discussion about cams with the guy that did my heads who just happens to be one of the top Harley drag bike engine builders in the country. Cams do not make power they shape it. You have X amount of available power in an engine build, the cams shape where the power is put. You don't make power with cams.
Road Master
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 992
Likes: 2
From: TN
FX4, i understand what your saying but its a curve and if the baseline curve makes more power than it dose now from say 2000 rpm till say 3500 its still going to make more power regardless of the exhaust set up. yes i do know i gave up some power putting those pipes on but its minimal as i actually gained in the butt dyno from stock to after putting them on with an a/c and a tune from dyno jet.
I think since i had issues using the auto tune basic before even though i figured it out ill take it to nick trask of trask turbos. He must be a good tuner if he developed a turbo system and tunes them too many bikes around here with turbos by him.
I think since i had issues using the auto tune basic before even though i figured it out ill take it to nick trask of trask turbos. He must be a good tuner if he developed a turbo system and tunes them too many bikes around here with turbos by him.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 37
From: Monroe, Louisiana
Was looking at the 14 cam to the 255. The 14 has plus or minus 1 degree the same numbers as the 255. The 14 is 4 degrees retarded on intake and exhaust. That way it won't build as much low end as the 255 through cranking compression. It will also carry out at least 500 rpms more than the 255. The other difference is the 255 has about .058" more lift.
IO IC dur lift CL EO EC Dur lift Cl LSA Adv overlap
2014 cam specs
3 30 213 .495 103.5 43 10 233 .495 106.5 105 1.5 13
255 specs.
6 25 211 .556 99.5 48 7 235 .556 110.5 105 5.5 13
2014 cam retarded 4 degrees
7 26 213 .495 99.5 47 6 233 .495 110.5 105 -2.5 13
IO IC dur lift CL EO EC Dur lift Cl LSA Adv overlap
2014 cam specs
3 30 213 .495 103.5 43 10 233 .495 106.5 105 1.5 13
255 specs.
6 25 211 .556 99.5 48 7 235 .556 110.5 105 5.5 13
2014 cam retarded 4 degrees
7 26 213 .495 99.5 47 6 233 .495 110.5 105 -2.5 13
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You aren't losing a lot not going with FM other than their consulting help, because most of the FM supplied tunes these days are just Dynojet tunes anyway. They aren't adding any added tuning value in most cases other than the most popular set-ups with their gear where they had a identical mule bike they used to fine tune.
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Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,129
Likes: 143
From: Santa Cruz
The more mods ya do the worse "base" maps/tunes are. I been all through base maps from fuelmoto and dynojet. Done the "autotuneing" on them and finally had them dyno tuned. There is no comparison to a proper dyno tune in power or drivability.
Here is my last dyno sheet (added headwork and used PV). Low line is custom map for my set-up from Dynojet. Basic "Autotune" (just skipped that step this time) may have helped the base map, but not as much as proper dyno tune.
Here is my last dyno sheet (added headwork and used PV). Low line is custom map for my set-up from Dynojet. Basic "Autotune" (just skipped that step this time) may have helped the base map, but not as much as proper dyno tune.
Last edited by 0ldhippie; May 28, 2014 at 01:47 PM.