Raked trees or chop the neck?
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Road Master
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,220
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From: chatham il
Raked trees or chop the neck?
I was wanting to know if anyone could shed some light on the benefits or downfalls of using a raked tree vs chopping the neck to install a 23" or larger front wheel. Odviously it is a lot more labor intensive to cut the neck weld on a new one and then repainted the frame of a bike than is is to use a bolt on set of raked trees. There must be a benifit to cutting the neck? Is it becouse when you cut the neck you get to extend it? I would only be concidering a 23" front wheel so I'm not sure which way to go. I do like the fact that if I went the bolt on method with the raked trees it could be removed later i case I traded the bike of in the future I could return it to stock. Please fill me in becouse I'm sure there is more to the story.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
Likes: 402
From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
neck cutting is cheap- i wouldn;t do it to my bike but i have seen it done.
essentially, the neck is cut from the bottom up with a sawzall, the remaining part is heated cherry red with a torch.
a 1" bar is put in the neck and it is bent to desired angle.
let cool
2 plates or Gussets are then welded on each side of the neck/frame.
this whole thing takes less then 30 minutes- the most time consuming is removing and reinstalling all the stuff in the way
mike
essentially, the neck is cut from the bottom up with a sawzall, the remaining part is heated cherry red with a torch.
a 1" bar is put in the neck and it is bent to desired angle.
let cool
2 plates or Gussets are then welded on each side of the neck/frame.
this whole thing takes less then 30 minutes- the most time consuming is removing and reinstalling all the stuff in the way
mike
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 345
Likes: 1
From: s.e. Wisconsin
I know the neck kits your talking about. There is no raked trees out there for the 26" wheel or larger so you need a cut neck kit to do so. I've seen 6' raked trees but I'm not sure if that's enough for even a 23" wheel like your mentioning. I'm thinking the raked trees are more for the 21" wheel if you don't want to lower your front end. Not positive though.
But I'm pretty sure there are no raked trees with enough rake(angle) that would work with big wheels.
Also when doing that you sacrifice ride ability. The front wheel gets real heavy feeling up front and want to kind of fall over to the left all the time.
But I'm pretty sure there are no raked trees with enough rake(angle) that would work with big wheels.
Also when doing that you sacrifice ride ability. The front wheel gets real heavy feeling up front and want to kind of fall over to the left all the time.
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 516
Likes: 1
From: Damascus MD
I know the neck kits your talking about. There is no raked trees out there for the 26" wheel or larger so you need a cut neck kit to do so. I've seen 6' raked trees but I'm not sure if that's enough for even a 23" wheel like your mentioning. I'm thinking the raked trees are more for the 21" wheel if you don't want to lower your front end. Not positive though.
But I'm pretty sure there are no raked trees with enough rake(angle) that would work with big wheels.
Also when doing that you sacrifice ride ability. The front wheel gets real heavy feeling up front and want to kind of fall over to the left all the time.
But I'm pretty sure there are no raked trees with enough rake(angle) that would work with big wheels.
Also when doing that you sacrifice ride ability. The front wheel gets real heavy feeling up front and want to kind of fall over to the left all the time.
Not true, there are bolt on rake kits/triple trees for up to 30's, most companies only go up to 26s though. And lots of pre fab weld on neck kits. You don't need a rake kit to run a 21 wheel, and you don't need to lower the front end for a 21. If you're not doing a 30 I would get a bolt on kit and see how you like it first. You can always remove it, sell the bolt on kit, and either go back to stock, or put a weld on neck kit if you want to go bigger.
http://www.misfitbaggers.com/Short-Neck_c_34.html
Misfit Industries provides custom raked triple trees for 30" wheels, 26", and 23" wheels. All set ups have stock trail so your bike will ride smooth. Be sure to check out our custom wheels and fenders. Ask about our One Off Design Service to produce a custom look.
I cut the neck on an old Honda 750 back in the 1970's. I wanted to put on a 12" over springer front end, but we didn't get the wheel properly aligned when we welded it back together. So, there was a very slight cant to the right when you sighted down the front end from triple tree to the tire. We pulled everything apart again and re-heated it and tried to bend it straight, but never really got it properly aligned again. There was always a very hard pull to the right at any speed. I ended up buying a Savior *** frame (remember those!?!) that already had a rake properly aligned for a 12-14 over front end, put it all together and absolutely hated the finished bike. I sold it for next to nothing and swore I'd never do that again.
I guess we all go down that road once in a while, don't we? Sounds like you're about experience your piece of "lesson learned". I really hope your adventure turns out OK. Good Luck.
Mike
I guess we all go down that road once in a while, don't we? Sounds like you're about experience your piece of "lesson learned". I really hope your adventure turns out OK. Good Luck.
Mike
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Charlotte Metro
Take a visit over at ChoppedBaggers.com. Some very knowledgeable members & vendors hangout over there.
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Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 125
Likes: 2
From: Union, KY
I believe there is a company called HHI that most guys are using for the raked trees up to a 26" wheel and possibly bigger. I've heard the advantage of doing the raked trees is you can easily put it back to stock later on if you want. Plus, I've heard by cutting your frame, it's very possible the insurance company can give your bike a "salvage" title because you've chopped the frame. Personally, if I were to go bigger than my 21", I would go with the raked tree's route. But, to each their own.
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Joe Kucinski
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Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Everywhere
Raked trees run more risk of negatively impacting the bikes geometry and adversely impacting handling due to reducing the trail (to the point of creating negative trail) Cutting and raking the neck maintain much more of the bikes handling. Simply bolting on a set of trees and thinking you took the easy way out isn't always the best route. Think of a shopping cart with the front wheel turned around that won't flip around - it wobbles when trying to go in a straight line.
look at attached picture, first picture think of as stock. Middle is raking the triple trees thus reducing the trail, the third image is raking the neck, restoring (and actually increasing) the trail). the size (radius) of the wheel used must be factored in as that will have an impact on the geometry as well. The middle will handle like crap although, to the naked eye "don;t look like much"
look at attached picture, first picture think of as stock. Middle is raking the triple trees thus reducing the trail, the third image is raking the neck, restoring (and actually increasing) the trail). the size (radius) of the wheel used must be factored in as that will have an impact on the geometry as well. The middle will handle like crap although, to the naked eye "don;t look like much"
Last edited by Weavr99FLHT; Aug 17, 2014 at 01:49 PM.
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 125
Likes: 2
From: Union, KY
Raked trees run more risk of negatively impacting the bikes geometry and adversely impacting handling due to reducing the trail (to the point of creating negative trail) Cutting and raking the neck maintain much more of the bikes handling. Simply bolting on a set of trees and thinking you took the easy way out isn't always the best route. Think of a shopping cart with the front wheel turned around that won't flip around - it wobbles when trying to go in a straight line.
look at attached picture, first picture think of as stock. Middle is raking the triple trees thus reducing the trail, the third image is raking the neck, restoring (and actually increasing) the trail). the size (radius) of the wheel used must be factored in as that will have an impact on the geometry as well. The middle will handle like crap although, to the naked eye "don;t look like much"
look at attached picture, first picture think of as stock. Middle is raking the triple trees thus reducing the trail, the third image is raking the neck, restoring (and actually increasing) the trail). the size (radius) of the wheel used must be factored in as that will have an impact on the geometry as well. The middle will handle like crap although, to the naked eye "don;t look like much"