Is it better to have new bearings installed before or after the dealer installs and balances a new tire?

I will be replacing the bearings,

 

The only situation where it matters is if your bearings are bad when you take your wheels to your dealer for new tyres! I had that experience a few years ago, but fortunately they had replacements in stock.

When do you plan on visiting Alaska?!

 

Doing it yourself, I'd be inclined to do it after so no chance the dealer touches them. Shouldn't really make a difference, although if you install them first and the dealer says you need new bearings, you'd know how honest he is... Have you done Harley wheel bearings before? Have to go in a particular way or risk real short bearing life. I don't even trust dealers to do that right. Plus, I wouldn't use the bearings Harley sells, and put another brand in first, dealer might give you some grief about it. If he even noticed.

 

Going next June, which is why I am trying to get my act together over the winter. I finally received George's puller, and bought the HD bearings already. My old ones seem to be fine but my bike has 46,475 miles and the bearings have never been changed. So I am going to do them myself, but really didn't want to have the dealer screw them up. On the other hand, I was wondering whether the balancing would be thrown off if the dealer balanced it using old bearing and I pull them and install new ones.

I have never done HD whee bearings before, so this will be a new experience for me, but I swear I have looked at every video out there. I already bought the new bearings, so will use them. But after my tire is replaced. This Friday the dealer is hosting a customer appreciation day, so plan on having the tire put on, maybe at a discount.

FYI, I have 46,475 miles, and the manual says to rebuild the front forks at 50,000 miles, so they are going in also on Friday. I pulled them off just now while deciding when to do the bearings. I am going to start another thread on about how much it should cost me to get my forks rebuilt? Any idea?

 

If the Harley bearings you got have metal seals, you'll just have to use them as is, would wreck the metal seal trying to pop it off. Plastic you can easily pop off with a tiny screwdriver, just insert the blade next to the inner race, not outer. Check the grease, I've seen way too many bearings in assorted brands that barely had any grease in them. You don't need or want to stuff the bearing, but it should have enough the ***** are constantly lubed by surrounding grease. If it has something that looks like vaseline, I've never been able to find out what it is and always clean it out and grease with a good quality name brand synthetic. If you think it only needs some more grease, don't add any if you don't know it's the same kind, a lot of greases are incompatible; clean it out and completely replace. There's a brand called Green Grease that claims you can use it with anything else, but that's just not true, some greases are seriously incompatible. Don't use Chevron Starplex, a popular trailer bearing grease, it's "hygroscopic", meaning it absorbs moisture, and I've seen it rust bearings. I really think a lot of these Harley wheel bearing failures reported on this forum are due to insufficient or wrong grease.

Another probable cause of some of the bearing failures is installing the bearings wrong. On a single brake disk wheel, the first bearing to install is the disk side of the wheel, and bottom it out in the bore. The other bearing goes in just enough to contact the inner spacer (the tube between the bearings) without pre-loading the inner races. That's critical. On a dual disk front wheel, go by the manual for bearing install order. It's a really good idea to match the manual against any tips people give you, and youtube videos - I've seen videos that got it wrong, though they're a good source of seeing what you're getting into before pulling things apart and sometimes those guys have some good tips; just be sure the tips don't go against the manual. The manual might be vague at times, but I haven't run into a mistake in one. Yet...

George's puller... that's one of the pricey ones, but it's a good one. My Pit Posse is similar and also works well. A tip for any of these type pullers, grease every piece of metal that rubs another piece, washers under nuts, all threads, anything that creates friction, those Harley bearings are really tight and there's a lot of pressure on the puller parts. Should be, anyway, if the bearing slips out, you probably have a bad/worn bore in the wheel; they can get that way when people use hammers on the bearing. Another tip - put the new bearings in the freezer for at least an hour, and don't take them out till you're ready to put them in, they'll shrink slightly, and every little bit helps. Also, either put a film of grease or anti-seize on the outer bearing race and wheel bore so you don't have dry metal grinding together. This can really help pulling them out next time, too. Also the same for the axle, no dry metal contact; I've had to pound corroded axles out with a sledge hammer, and that can cost if the axle needs replacing.

Unlikely a dealer or shop will do any of the grease/anti-seize things or check inside the bearings, so doing this stuff yourself means it's probably going to last longer and will certainly be easier to work on in the future. Safer, too, as long as you do it right. Good luck.

 

If you pulled them off, why not just continue with the process and disassemble, clean, inspect, replace parts, assemble and reinstall?

 

Scared I guess, having never done this before. I watched a couple of videos today on it, and I don't have a long 12mm hex head socket, or special tools to seat the seals.

I drained the front fork oil once and had so much trouble putting the cap back on the end that I swore the next time I would let someone else do it.
I think it would be easier this time, as I learned some tricks. Please understand that my forks look good, no leaks. I probably wouldn't need to do the rebuild if I just rode it locally, but I am going to Alaska next summer, and the maintenance schedule in the manual says to rebuild it at 50,000 miles, and I am at 46,475 miles on it now. So I am trying to do any and all preventive maintenance to minimize any breakdowns next summer..

 

well, from a mfg view point, my mfg tolerances better have the bearing balanced out. another point is that IF they were out a tad, it is SOOOO close to the axis, wouldn't make a hill of beans.
there is a reason you will not see a gob of grease in the bearings. the mfg knows how much and what life cycle (revolutions) the grease can support, more does not help, it is counter productive. you can liken it to walking through a mud puddle or trying to push through a hill of dirt. the bearing needs to roll through the grease, coat its surface and keep going, excess grease will be pushed around the races and will offer less lube to the surface and create heat.

 

Once upon a time that was true, but with the advent of cheap Chinese manufacturing, it isn't anymore. Some non-Chinese companies that shifted manufacturing there are careful to have their specifications followed, including type of grease and how much (this is why AllBalls is getting a good reputation, using quality Chevron synthetic and plenty of it), but some of them just get cheap bearings often using something that looks like vaseline (I'm sure it isn't, but I won't use it anyway) often applied as a "string" about 1/16th inch diameter around one side of the bearing race. Install one of these without spinning the bearing first, and the first few rotations on the bike are running dry until grease reaches the *****. Get a good speed up, and the grease is slung into crannies where it will never be available again, and the engineers' "thin film is all you need" dries with no replenishment and that bearing dies long before it should.

I've seen dozens of bearings that were dry and cooked inside from lack of grease. That's why I never install a bearing without popping a seal and checking the grease. If that thin string of grease on one side is there, I always clean that off and use a quality synthetic, enough to pack the ***** in the ball cage, but not filling up the space between the cage and the seals - on spin up, the excess grease is slung off the ball and cage assembly into the space between cage and ball leaving a minimal friction tunnel for the ***** and reservoir of grease against the seals - which will be needed as time goes on. Engineers - I've talked with some that agreed, and some that said if they learned it in school, that's the correct way, but they seldom see the destroyed bearings we mechanics have.

The grease itself is a major issue, and even airlines and aircraft manufacturers can get it wrong; I got the grease type changed a few times while working for an airline, after pointing out the reason components were failing was due to the wrong grease, not improper assembly or use. An example of what I consider a grease problem today is the Chevron Starplex grease often used as OEM in trailer bearings. It's hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs moisture. You can even see it, it's a dark red grease that turns pink as it absorbs moisture. There's actually a reasoning behind this for some applications, it prevents water droplets sitting in one spot and causing a rust spot, but it also has to be purged and re-greased frequently or when it gets saturated, it rusts everywhere. And how many trailer owners do that on a regular basis? I bought a trailer last year, and knowing this, pulled the bearings before using it. What do you see in this photo?



Notice the brown line in the grease? The roller cage was getting surface rust on the inside.

Cleaned up and re-greased, this is the color it was supposed to be, actually Mobil 1, but it's the same color as Starplex. Starplex is a good grease, but you can't let it get wet too long. This trailer had only been on the road from store to my house, too, no water exposure other than sitting outside in the store lot. This looks heavy on the grease, and it is, but this isn't sealed on the inside, and excess grease is slung into the interior hub cavity, you can't really over grease it. On a motorcycle wheel bearing, I don't cover up the ball cage, enough gets caught between the bearing bulges. And if you ever run into a wheel bearing almost filled with plastic spacers instead of metal ball cages, I'd advise throwing them away. I've seen them full of plastic grit worn off by the *****, plastic makes a poor lubricant. I bought a new wheel once that came with that kind of bearing, just threw them out with zero miles.



I've seen enough manufacturing shortcuts and downright poor engineering to not have blind faith they're always going to do the right thing. Throw low cost Chinese factories into the mix, and take your chances, I don't. I even replaced the Chinese tires on my trailer with American made, and I'd never think of using Chinese rubber on a motorcycle. Same for bearings, with the possible exception of AllBalls, that seems to get good quality control, probably enforced by the American company having them made, not the Chinese factory.