I Should Listen Sometimes
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,454
Likes: 58
From: Graysville, AL
Called Fuel Moto today and got a new license for my P.V. and a stock improved map. I got it downloaded on the bike but no time to ride today. In a month or two I'll add exhaust and a intake.
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA
If I've typed it once, I bet I've typed it 20 times...
The FIRST thing a man should do when considering making changes is GET A TUNER. It will help a stock bike, and when you change pipes and or air cleaner, you're ready for it.
Can you run without a tuner? Yes.
Will you blow your engine up running without a tuner? Probably not.
Can you expect to get 50,000 miles out of your engine without a tuner? Most likely.
Will it run correctly without a tuner? No.
Dealers and their parts and service departments are a business, in business to sell motorcycles, and motorcycle parts and accessories. They tell you that you can get away without a tuner, because a LOT of guys won't come off the jack for a tuner, and they're afraid they'll lose sales if they tell you to get a tuner.
Changing the air flow without changing the VE tables is not beneficial. These bikes run lean from the factory, adding a more free flowing exhaust makes them run more lean.
Do what you want, I won't criticize, just trying to offer things to think about.
...but there is a reason I won't buy a used bike as my primary ride...
The FIRST thing a man should do when considering making changes is GET A TUNER. It will help a stock bike, and when you change pipes and or air cleaner, you're ready for it.
Can you run without a tuner? Yes.
Will you blow your engine up running without a tuner? Probably not.
Can you expect to get 50,000 miles out of your engine without a tuner? Most likely.
Will it run correctly without a tuner? No.
Dealers and their parts and service departments are a business, in business to sell motorcycles, and motorcycle parts and accessories. They tell you that you can get away without a tuner, because a LOT of guys won't come off the jack for a tuner, and they're afraid they'll lose sales if they tell you to get a tuner.
Changing the air flow without changing the VE tables is not beneficial. These bikes run lean from the factory, adding a more free flowing exhaust makes them run more lean.
Do what you want, I won't criticize, just trying to offer things to think about.
...but there is a reason I won't buy a used bike as my primary ride...
Would a Power Vision be over kill on an stock 2013 Triglide. Don't have any intentions on adding anything to it , but would like to improve on performance. i have the XIED's but looking to improve pinging, low end torque, etc. Thanks
Yeah, probably overkill.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,967
Likes: 206
From: Jax FL
and then you can "quick tune" it to richen up the idle to cool it off.
and you can monitor many parameters.
pop off the bag, seat, & side cover, plug it in, fold the wire thru the litte gap in the frame at the front, and pull the "dash" off (take off the gas cap)
and mount it on the bars.
I would autotune it, then check your MPG,
and then you can use "quick tune" to lean out the mid range where you cruise, or you could note your cruise RPM, and lean it out a bit at a specific (200~300) RPM range for fuel mileage on your computer.
it's so versatile...that it is foolish to pay ~27k for a bike, and skimp on a tuner.
Supporter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,870
Likes: 4,083
From: Taylortucky, MI
I finally decided on Vance & Hines Dresser duals VO2 A/C and an FP3. All I can say is WOW!!! V&H helped me with the correct map and after running my first autotune today I am VERY impressed. The bike pulls HARD up through the gears but I am more impressed with how smooth it runs. Compensator noise is all but gone and the bucking at very low speeds that every other Harley I ever had is non existent.. I loved this bike before but now, like I said before all I can say is WOW...
it has a trip meter function, and you can monitor your MPG.
I would autotune it, then check your MPG,
and then you can use "quick tune" to lean out the mid range where you cruise, or you could note your cruise RPM, and lean it out a bit at a specific (200~300) RPM range for fuel mileage on your computer.
it's so versatile...that it is foolish to pay ~27k for a bike, and skimp on a tuner.
I would autotune it, then check your MPG,
and then you can use "quick tune" to lean out the mid range where you cruise, or you could note your cruise RPM, and lean it out a bit at a specific (200~300) RPM range for fuel mileage on your computer.
it's so versatile...that it is foolish to pay ~27k for a bike, and skimp on a tuner.
And beyond auto tuning, I don't know how to do that other stuff....
That's the next step in my education. Wish an expert lived nearby.
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6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Virginia
SafetyMan:
Sorry to dredge up an old post but I have another question and I cant send you a PM due to my post count being low.
I understand that a dyno tune after adding a heavy breather and pipes will synch up my VE tables to what is in my AFR table so that the AFR that is called for in the AFR table is actually the AFR that is in my pipes. I understand that this is essential; otherwise you will not get the AFR that is in the AFR table in the pipes.
What I dont understand is what you describe as the factory lean MAP, specifically the closed loop portion of the MAP. Im guessing that is what you are indicating is lean. In order for the ECM to operate in the closed loop doesnt the AFR have to be between about 14.6 and 14.1 so that the narrow band O2 sensors can read the oxygen in the pipes? I dont understand how a tuner significantly richens up the closed loop to reduce heat without taking the ECM out of the closed loop. I guess the tuner could reduce the lambda table figures in the closed loop to an AFR of about 14.1, but if the lambda settings are changed much more than that wont the ECM be out of the closed loop and be in the open loop? Is that what is done during a dyno tune? Will changing the AFR in the closed loop from 14.6 to 14.1 result in a significant heat reduction? Can you look at your stock MAP and the one the tuner did for you and let me know what changes were made on the lambda table in the closed loop portion? Maybe certain MAP and RPM cells were changed from the closed loop to the open loop? I posted several months ago seeking information about what specifically was done by a tuner after the VE tables were synched up to the AFR table and I didnt really get allot of specific answers.
Thanks for your help.
Sorry to dredge up an old post but I have another question and I cant send you a PM due to my post count being low.
I understand that a dyno tune after adding a heavy breather and pipes will synch up my VE tables to what is in my AFR table so that the AFR that is called for in the AFR table is actually the AFR that is in my pipes. I understand that this is essential; otherwise you will not get the AFR that is in the AFR table in the pipes.
What I dont understand is what you describe as the factory lean MAP, specifically the closed loop portion of the MAP. Im guessing that is what you are indicating is lean. In order for the ECM to operate in the closed loop doesnt the AFR have to be between about 14.6 and 14.1 so that the narrow band O2 sensors can read the oxygen in the pipes? I dont understand how a tuner significantly richens up the closed loop to reduce heat without taking the ECM out of the closed loop. I guess the tuner could reduce the lambda table figures in the closed loop to an AFR of about 14.1, but if the lambda settings are changed much more than that wont the ECM be out of the closed loop and be in the open loop? Is that what is done during a dyno tune? Will changing the AFR in the closed loop from 14.6 to 14.1 result in a significant heat reduction? Can you look at your stock MAP and the one the tuner did for you and let me know what changes were made on the lambda table in the closed loop portion? Maybe certain MAP and RPM cells were changed from the closed loop to the open loop? I posted several months ago seeking information about what specifically was done by a tuner after the VE tables were synched up to the AFR table and I didnt really get allot of specific answers.
Thanks for your help.
Tourer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 417
Likes: 3
From: CT
I had a power vision on my brand new road King the second time I rode it!
Stock improved map richens the closed loop area a bit and everything else was good until my full exhaust and intake came in. Then a good dyno tune and I'm all set.
Stock improved map richens the closed loop area a bit and everything else was good until my full exhaust and intake came in. Then a good dyno tune and I'm all set.