2014-2024 Touring Models This Section Is For Rushmore and Gen 1 M8 Touring models from 2014 to 2024
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Old Apr 24, 2016 | 08:05 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Tn.Heritage
I ride alot but I also clean alot, I can't stand to leave the house with a dirty bike, I'd smother to death if I did that.......
WOE! read your tag line, 120 hp/ 120 tq that bagged up wet head will surprise a few folks. I'm the same way, and I love Black. Is it harder to keep em clean? Yep. I washed my other colored bikes just as often. When I was a kid my Dad once told me "It aint cool if your chrome dont shine." I guess it stuck
 
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Old Apr 24, 2016 | 09:20 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by smitty901
I will try. Swirled marks are scratches ,cuts in the clear coat. They show up when light hits them. When a straight back and forth application for removing polish or wax is used they are less likely to reflect the light that cause them to show up. The circular motion does nothing to enhance the shine on most of the modern polishes .
When you take a clear coat that is not damaged yet and apply a product like Zanio's correctly it protects the clear coat from these minor scratches.
Latter I will post some shots of my Black and Silver RGU. With a few coats of Zanios Pro2 applied I can wipe it down clean it and never damage the clear coat. I have seen Black bikes that looked like a spider web restored following Zanios steps to do so.
Micro fiber cloths seemed to be all the rage for a while and they work, but the correct 100% cotton work better
I understand what swirl marks are, that is not my question. My question is " what difference does it make which direction I use my cloth?"
I'm not trying to argue about it, just trying to understand how one motion supposedly leaves more visible marks than another motion....it just doesn't make sense to me.
For the sake of this discussion, let's say I am trying to shine ( I say shine because if I say polish, some one is gonna say, "don't you mean wax"?)my saddlebag. So here I am shining my saddlebag, I am wiping from left to right the length of the bag, and without lifting the cloth, going back to the left , from the right. At the very instant I switch directions, am I not , essentially making a circle? And then repeating, multiple times until I am satisfied with the shine....ultimately making many circular motions, albeit very small circles
 
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Old Apr 24, 2016 | 09:38 AM
  #63  
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Okee Dokee ... For the obsessive/compulsive waxoholics. I ran across this ( as I wait for the well repairman to "ressurect" my water ) and thought I'd post it.

Microfiber vs 100% Cotton
Its scratch resistance has a lot to do with the way the fibres are processed and spun, there are too many factors to be able to say conclusively that natural fibres will not cause scratches and artificial fibres will. In my opinion, however, natural fibres are far less likely to scratch, flannel or cotton flannel is a very tight weave and it could scratch as it mats down easily, always try to stay with a terrycloth weave.

Regardless of material type or quality, a dirty micro fibre, or a 100% Cotton towel will scratch, Micro fibre has attractant properties, that is dirt, dust, and various other substances cling to it, which is one of the reasons that it works so well, but it is also a reason why you need to be extra careful when using towels on your paint

(100%) Cotton Towels:
Micro fibre by definition (very small; involving minute quantities or variations) is not a fabric; but a yarn, that’s spun into thread, which is then used to weave a terry fabric. These ultra-fine yarns (2X as fine as silk and 100X finer than a human hair) are made form various sources, they can be made from many different materials, such as Micro fiber (Polyester / Polyamide) or a natural material such as cellulose (100% cotton) a plant carbohydrate.

This detailing towel is made entirely of a blend of micro fibre cotton and pima cotton, 100% Cotton (50% Cotton Microfiber/50% Pima Cotton) Its scratch resistance has a lot to do with the way the fibres are processed and spun, there are too many factors to be able to say conclusively that natural fibres will not cause scratches and artificial fibres will. In my opinion, however, natural fibres are far less likely to scratch, flannel or cotton flannel is a very tight weave and it could scratch as it mats down easily, always try to stay with a terrycloth weave.

Theses cotton towels are exceptionally soft, super absorbent terrycloth. The fabric is woven from a blend of micro fibre cotton and Pima Cotton; no artificial fibres of any kind are used in the weaving or sewing of this product. But pay attention to the edge bindings as they can be a potential cause of surface scratches Quality towels edge bindings are sewn with cotton thread, not polyester. (For more information on cotton) -http://www.supima.com/faq/index.htm

The smaller the diameter of the yarn, the softer the fabric will feel, however this does not mean that its non-abrasive and will not cause scratches (this softness can also be chemically induced) The most important criteria for any fabric used on a vehicle surface is its quality and scratch resistance.
Natural cellulose can be spun with long staple cotton and then woven into 100% natural looped terrycloth or velour, were the loops are trimmed to produce a fine nap (ideal for glass cleaning). This is very soft, absorbent, and non-abrasive and will not cause scratching.

Once this type of fabric is washed two or three times, to remove any short fibres it will not leave a lint trail. The principal structural chemical in cotton, wood, and most other plants is actually cellulose consisting of many small molecules linked together (monomers) in a chain or lattice like structure; both linen and cotton are natural plant fibres. Quality towels edge bindings are sewn with cotton thread, not polyester.

Microfiber Towels:
The first material used to produce Microfiber was a combination of two DuPont fibres, polyester and polyamide, which is used as the core and polyester as the outer fibre, No matter how soft it feels polyester, being a plastic will scratch a paint surface on a microscopic level, which show up as towelling marks, which are longer scratches than the usual small swirl marks or micro marring, to check for polyester content see burn test

Keep in mind that the nature of this yarn is that it is an adsorbent; the reason polyester appears to absorb liquids is the many thousands of micro-fibres that collectively are encapsulating a lot of water. Once they become coated with detergent, polish or fabric softener, etc they loose there ability to be an absorbent.
The smaller the diameter of the yarn, the softer the fabric will feel, however this does not mean that its non-abrasive and will not cause scratches (this softness can also be chemically induced)

Most Microfiber that originates from Asia and the Far East is fabricated from polyester or nylon by-products. Because the label says Microfiber is no assurance that the material is safe to use or that it is non-abrasive.The most important criteria for any fabric used on a vehicle surface is its quality and scratch resistance.
Regardless of material type or quality, a dirty micro fibre, or a 100% Cotton towel will scratch, Micro fibre has attractant properties, that is dirt, dust, and various other substances cling to it, which is one of the reasons that it works so well, but it is also a reason why you need to be extra careful when using towels on your paint
 

Last edited by Uncle Larry; Apr 24, 2016 at 06:19 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Old Apr 24, 2016 | 02:10 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by skieverything
I understand what swirl marks are, that is not my question. My question is " what difference does it make which direction I use my cloth?"
I'm not trying to argue about it, just trying to understand how one motion supposedly leaves more visible marks than another motion....it just doesn't make sense to me.
For the sake of this discussion, let's say I am trying to shine ( I say shine because if I say polish, some one is gonna say, "don't you mean wax"?)my saddlebag. So here I am shining my saddlebag, I am wiping from left to right the length of the bag, and without lifting the cloth, going back to the left , from the right. At the very instant I switch directions, am I not , essentially making a circle? And then repeating, multiple times until I am satisfied with the shine....ultimately making many circular motions, albeit very small circles
Re read it. The circular motion is what cause light scratches in the clear coat that you see. It is the way they reflect light. Directional motion does not cause that nearly as much. Look at the swirled marks you see in bikes and cars paint . They are circular in general.
 
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Old Apr 24, 2016 | 04:25 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by smitty901
Re read it. The circular motion is what cause light scratches in the clear coat that you see. It is the way they reflect light. Directional motion does not cause that nearly as much. Look at the swirled marks you see in bikes and cars paint . They are circular in general.
back to my saddlebag analogy for a second, so if today I wipe it length wise, and tomorrow I wipe it the other direction, not circular mind you, it won't leave swirl marks because I didn't use a circular motion? I went back and forth.....
 
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Old Apr 24, 2016 | 04:34 PM
  #66  
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Does not madder if you go left right, right left up down, down up. It is the straight line direction that helps prevent the spider webbing you See in the clear coat. There may well be small scratches if you picked out dirt of something when doing it ,just less likely they will show if you do it this way. Just like when you remove a scratch in the clear coat you use straight movements across the scratch not a circular motion to get rid of it.
That is why a good coat of a product like Zanios done right helps it acts as a barrier between then cloth and the clear coat. Same as wax may do but much better
 
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Old Apr 24, 2016 | 05:02 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by smitty901
Does not madder if you go left right, right left up down, down up. It is the straight line direction that helps prevent the spider webbing you See in the clear coat. There may well be small scratches if you picked out dirt of something when doing it ,just less likely they will show if you do it this way. Just like when you remove a scratch in the clear coat you use straight movements across the scratch not a circular motion to get rid of it.
That is why a good coat of a product like Zanios done right helps it acts as a barrier between then cloth and the clear coat. Same as wax may do but much better
Sorry Smitty, I'm not buying what you're selling. In my estimation, no matter what motion you use, scratches in the clear are inevitable. thanks for trying to help me understand another viewpoint.
I may have to try that Zaino stuff though
 
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Old Apr 24, 2016 | 05:09 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by skieverything
Sorry Smitty, I'm not buying what you're selling. In my estimation, no matter what motion you use, scratches in the clear are inevitable. thanks for trying to help me understand another viewpoint.
I may have to try that Zaino stuff though
Notice I said scratches you see. It is how light hits them that cause you to see them. Zanios may seem expensive at first but once you see that about 1/2 oz does the entire bike with some left over it is reasonable. Hard parts is leaning to put it on so thin.
Use zanios correctly you will avoid swirl scratches in you clear coat.
 
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