My Uninformed Long Dumb Take on Harley and The Softail
Novice
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 23
Likes: 6
From: Northland
actually i don't think very highly of my opinion at all. i'm not at all on the inside of the industry, or even really the Harley culture. i'm just another middle aged guy who likes motorcycles and sees big issues, opportunities, challenges and change right now for America's most storied brand. It's just really interesting to me- to see how a company that really has relied on its "story" more than say- the practicality, the value, the performance, or anything else companies usually rely on to sell expensive complicated things- is going to go things now that its story is no longer compelling to a large enough section of potential motorcyclists.
harley is losing new bike sales in the United States because it's market is american white male baby boomers. there are less and less of them every day- and if Harley is to continue selling a bunch of bikes- it needs its customer base to more closely reflect current demographics. the question is how?
offering a great small bike in China and South East Asia is one way. Jumping head first into the electronic game is another. Making e-bikes and other products aimed at younger folks is too. I don't think it was a mistake to kill the Dyna- but they should have killed the Softail name with it- and come up with something new for this new exciting line of bikes.
i'm sorry if my post was boring and for wasting anyone's time. i just thought it could be a nice jumping off point for a discussion about Harley and the new Softail line and what it all means for the Moco and us.
harley is losing new bike sales in the United States because it's market is american white male baby boomers. there are less and less of them every day- and if Harley is to continue selling a bunch of bikes- it needs its customer base to more closely reflect current demographics. the question is how?
offering a great small bike in China and South East Asia is one way. Jumping head first into the electronic game is another. Making e-bikes and other products aimed at younger folks is too. I don't think it was a mistake to kill the Dyna- but they should have killed the Softail name with it- and come up with something new for this new exciting line of bikes.
i'm sorry if my post was boring and for wasting anyone's time. i just thought it could be a nice jumping off point for a discussion about Harley and the new Softail line and what it all means for the Moco and us.
all fair points but your assessment of what Harley needs seems to be self centered around what people in California like and want...that's what I got from it. I'm guessing in Cal, Oregon, Washignton the Livewire will be very Popular. I don't see them selling here at all with a 30k plus pricetag in the lowly midwest where we Like noise, power, and classic looks not hip and trendy
thats all my opinion and based off the people I ride with who are all mid 30's to 50's and a few younger that are looking at 2019 Touring bikes
Thread Starter
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Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 41
Likes: 23
From: San Diego, CA
agreed. i' live in San Diego now and am originally from Boston-but you're absolutely right noise, power, and classic looks will always be something that Harley offers and is appealing to folks. hell- it's appealing to me too. i'm a white guy in my early forties who wants noise, power, and classic looks too...my point is just that Harley's traditional market is shrinking in both relative and actual terms and they're making an effort to address this.
i do think it would be a mistake to abandon folks looking for what you described and I don't see any sign of the MoCo doing that.
to that end- i think Harley has done a good job with the touring line up actually. the whole "power bagger" thing makes a lot of sense and they seem to be to Harley what pick-ups are to ford and gm. they're high end, reliable, tough, make the company good margin and don't need to compete with sports cars for technology and performance or sedans and coupes fpr mileage and value.
i bet even in "trendy" California- Harley is selling more touring bikes than new softails. i think its really great that Harley introduced the Electra Glide Standard this year- an $18,000 bagger that looks great in black with the red shields on the tank. this bike should be able to get some of the guys in their 30s and 40s who are coming off of sport bikes or standards and are looking for something more capable and comfortable for long rides away from Japanese bikes and possibly buying new instead of buying used. if i were to buy a third bike right now- i'd almost certainly get an Electra Glide Standard- and for $30k there are probably a dozen Harley models I'd take before a Livewire- but I'm just glad to see them trying.
i do think it would be a mistake to abandon folks looking for what you described and I don't see any sign of the MoCo doing that.
to that end- i think Harley has done a good job with the touring line up actually. the whole "power bagger" thing makes a lot of sense and they seem to be to Harley what pick-ups are to ford and gm. they're high end, reliable, tough, make the company good margin and don't need to compete with sports cars for technology and performance or sedans and coupes fpr mileage and value.
i bet even in "trendy" California- Harley is selling more touring bikes than new softails. i think its really great that Harley introduced the Electra Glide Standard this year- an $18,000 bagger that looks great in black with the red shields on the tank. this bike should be able to get some of the guys in their 30s and 40s who are coming off of sport bikes or standards and are looking for something more capable and comfortable for long rides away from Japanese bikes and possibly buying new instead of buying used. if i were to buy a third bike right now- i'd almost certainly get an Electra Glide Standard- and for $30k there are probably a dozen Harley models I'd take before a Livewire- but I'm just glad to see them trying.
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 35
Likes: 18
From: Eagle River AK
That look is popular with some people I'm sure but not everybody. I don't notice bikes being blacked out much beyond what the factory does anywhere in massive numbers though, CA included. The models they kept through the new frame were chosen for a reason. The Slim has the lowest seat height Harley makes. They build it for women who don't feel comfortable riding anything taller but want a big twin. That's the purpose it serves and why they'll keep building it. The Heritage by far is the most popular and best selling Softail in the line so I think the masses have weighed in on it. You can make any of these bikes whatever you want to make them, they are for the most part the same frame. But as you said, a lot of people are happy with not turning wrenches. So Harley make models just different enough from each other that they can find one that best fits their needs to make their own. If you want floorboards don't start with a StreetBob kind of thing.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 594
From: Alabama
I did not read the OP first post, but if you are interested, go test ride them.
HD has made some really bad business and engineering decisions lately. The Livewire in my opinion will never sell. HD has a core competency in large bikes. They maybe should just stay in that lane.
I don't think HD will ever fully recover from its bad management decisions of the past few years. It is probably a company on the downturn cycle.
Lots of reasons I say this. I worked for HD in York in the last AMF years. I grew up in York. I have owned most major brands and currently own the 2018 Heritage Classic and it is the best ride I ever owned. That said, I am an old guy and that is the style of bike I want and it works very well. It is a vast improvement over the pre-M8 softails.
Just test ride bikes and you should get a pretty good idea what you want.
HD has made some really bad business and engineering decisions lately. The Livewire in my opinion will never sell. HD has a core competency in large bikes. They maybe should just stay in that lane.
I don't think HD will ever fully recover from its bad management decisions of the past few years. It is probably a company on the downturn cycle.
Lots of reasons I say this. I worked for HD in York in the last AMF years. I grew up in York. I have owned most major brands and currently own the 2018 Heritage Classic and it is the best ride I ever owned. That said, I am an old guy and that is the style of bike I want and it works very well. It is a vast improvement over the pre-M8 softails.
Just test ride bikes and you should get a pretty good idea what you want.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 195
From: Ohio
Coming from a 1200C sportster the Sport Glide is the perfect bike for me. The stock 107 has more power than I need. On a lighter bike it will probably out run a 114 on a heavier bike. Less is more. The most disappointing thing so far is the speedo condensation issue that fogs up the display. I like your post, some interesting points.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,315
Likes: 1,663
From: Tampa
I did not read the OP first post, but if you are interested, go test ride them.
HD has made some really bad business and engineering decisions lately. The Livewire in my opinion will never sell. HD has a core competency in large bikes. They maybe should just stay in that lane.
I don't think HD will ever fully recover from its bad management decisions of the past few years. It is probably a company on the downturn cycle.
Lots of reasons I say this. I worked for HD in York in the last AMF years. I grew up in York. I have owned most major brands and currently own the 2018 Heritage Classic and it is the best ride I ever owned. That said, I am an old guy and that is the style of bike I want and it works very well. It is a vast improvement over the pre-M8 softails.
Just test ride bikes and you should get a pretty good idea what you want.
HD has made some really bad business and engineering decisions lately. The Livewire in my opinion will never sell. HD has a core competency in large bikes. They maybe should just stay in that lane.
I don't think HD will ever fully recover from its bad management decisions of the past few years. It is probably a company on the downturn cycle.
Lots of reasons I say this. I worked for HD in York in the last AMF years. I grew up in York. I have owned most major brands and currently own the 2018 Heritage Classic and it is the best ride I ever owned. That said, I am an old guy and that is the style of bike I want and it works very well. It is a vast improvement over the pre-M8 softails.
Just test ride bikes and you should get a pretty good idea what you want.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,050
Likes: 2,861
From: IL
fat middle aged to elderly simpleton white guy Right there is where I lost interest in his blather.
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Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 224
Likes: 108
From: Tampa, FL
Wait, you mean I bought a girls bike and my wife bought a guy's bike? Why the **** didn't somebody tell us?!? I feel the dealer screwed me now--thanks for ruining my day.
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 809
Likes: 569
From: Detroit Metro Area
Yea, well I actually bought a Harley to RIDE so imagine how I feel now. Supposed to be loud, obnoxious, and purdy for bike nights at the bar but I have never been to a bike night or a bar in my 43 years of road riding. And to think I could have had something more suited to that sort of thing....