I assume 5v is better, but why? What is the importance of the preamp's voltage?

 

Without getting too technical a higher pre-out voltage basically means your amp isn't going to have to work as hard to deliver power. In addition you will not have to turn your gains up as high to match the HU signal. Less gain = less distortion and less noise.

 

Yep, gannicus is correct lol.

 

Once upon a time when engineers designed things, electronic standards were maintained worldwide. This is done so equipment and technology could function universally. One of those universal standards was called 'Line Level' which meant a Sinusoidal signal was delivered at 1 Volt Peak to Peak into a certain impedance, usually 600 or 1000 ohms. Then the marketing people got a hold of it. They played against the human psyche that if 1 Volt was the norm then then 2 Volts 'must' be better, and if 2 volts is better then certainly the unwashed masses will certainly pay a premium for 5 Volts.
So now we have equipment that is meant to accept 1 volt that when driven by a 2 volt source sounds louder. In reality most equipment is on the verge if not actually being overdriven at 2 volts. Along comes 5 volts and now standard electronic equipment is definitely being overdriven. But fear not, a whole new industry has been created to manufacture electronics meant to accept 5 Volt sources, and a spin off industry is also created to manufacture Line Leveling or matching devices that will knock that 5 volt source back down to 1 Volt so as to be 'compatible' with the original 1 Volt standard.
As an engineer I can tell you there really is no reason for marketers to try to change the Line Level standard. It would be like looking for a new house and having the realestate agent tell you " All the old houses are running on 120 Volts but this new house is completely wired for 440 single phase, better buy it quick!

 

Interesting, not the first time this has been brought up but first time I've seen you post a response like that. I'm not talkin **** or anything but why now.. That little issue gets brought up several times a week.. It will be interesting to see the debate that ensues, if people more knowledgeable than I chime in

 

I am glad to see someone that is willing to write the long explanations (and sometimes college courses) that so many times I start to write but usually don't, and it seems the few times I have, it disappears.


I don't see where a debate could arise on the subject of line level inputs, since what he stated is exactly the way the industry has advanced over the last 35 years or so, with absolutely no founding for the changes, except to charge more and sell more. These type of changes always remind me of the so called advancement of the audio world, line level standards that became not even close to standard, and the one I still get upset about every time I think about it, RCA inputs on "high end" audio equipment, this still burns me up 30 years later. I wish manufacturers still made "quality" equipment with the best materials for the item instead of changing their entire design so that they can sell more amps or head units, because most would not purchase their items because they couldn't connect it to the other components they had. Thanks Kenwood, and the last two sell outs, Alpine and Clarion,


Sorry, I knew I should have read another thread instead of typing.

 

Easy.. Many people say 4v at least, the guy above calls bulllshit. He's basically saying it doesn't matter but alot of people on here say it does. So who's wrong and who's dumb.. I don't know nor do I care either way,as I stated above no knowledge here

 

LOL. . . Yeah it's a lot crooks out there but I think Seasaw is pointing fingers a the wrong crooks. A Harley Davidson stock HU running 2v is $500 brand new. The Sony Mex - M70BT @ 5v is $200. . .More features, Better sound. What am I missing? Using Seasaw's analogy we should continue to use 8 track tapes vs. BT and USB. No dog in the fight . . . Just sayin. I'm running 5v at every opportunity. . . lol

 

He's not saying it doesn't matter NOW, because now it does matter, simply because the industry made the changes to the 1v1k standard. If this had stayed the same across all manufacturers as it once was, then there would be no need for people to try and match levels that in reality have no benefit from the change. An amp can put out 5000 watts with a line input of 1v and no gain settings and designing it with an input of 2v or 5v does not change the 5000 watts it puts out, so now since amp designs have changed so much and everyone wants to continually change the input, you may have an amp that was designed with a 2v input and the tuner (I am using tuner as an example, since my 1v would come from a tuner and not a receiver) from another manufacturer with the 1v output, you have to have gains now, to make the amp do what it is suppose to do, since most manufacturers do not have standards even within their own equipment anymore. All this has led to is, trouble for users, and more profit and money for companies, and I say trouble because the majority of people have no idea how to correctly adjust the gain and even a lot of those who think they know, don't, and this leads to systems that overwork the amp, fry the voice coil, etc., and this leads to buying the items again. I think maybe you misunderstood what he was saying, or maybe I didn't read it right, so in a way you are right today, it may be beneficial to have a line level of 4v, but it all boils down to what is driving what.


When it first started getting the little companies making audio equipment and also changing everything around from input levels to input connections, etc., it was really crooked, manufacturers would post specs of their equipment, and all three measurements would be used by companies, some would use peak wattage, some RMS, and others may even state the P-P wattage, making their amp on paper look like king of the hill, at least now most have posted specs with RMS and Peak, and specify what they are showing.

 

No, your comparison is apples and oranges. My contention is not anti technology, i.e. 8 track vs BT vs USB. I am an engineer by profession and amplifiers amongst other things are what I'm paid to design. I work and design electronics at the cutting edge of technology. My stance is against the needless incrementing of the 1 Volt standard, this is done purely for marketing and snake oil purposes. There is no technological advantage for increasing the Line Level input voltage, none, zero, zip, zilch, nada. It is purely marketing hyperbole. Believe me, when the engineering world set the standards they were very much aware of voltages other than 1 volt. This isn't some 'new design discovery' or an increase done for efficiency purposes. 1 Volt standard was decided on for engineering and mathematical purposes just like all other industry standards.
It is no different than if any other industry 'decided' to change a normative for no particular technological reason. Imagine going to buy a garden hose at Home Depot, the salesman tells you they've changed the coupler's thread size, all garden hoses now have a much longer and finer pitch thread. There's no good reason for it, it's not more efficient, it's just a different way to sell more product. So now you as the consumer must now update all your garden taps to accommodate for this 'New and Improved, Technologically Advanced' garden hose. Nothing's changed, you still get the same amount of water out the end of the hose. If people agree to this type of change as an improvement then they've just successfully been 'Socially Engineered' by marketers.