Blown PBR
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,930
Likes: 4
From: OHIO......UGH !!
Why does everyone want to reinvent the wheel...... I wouldn't use a class A/B amp in a bike............. Hard to believe that in 2014, folks still listen to terrestrial radio...
Brew61, I would run 2 of the Rockford 300/2's, if you MUST have FM !!
Brew61, I would run 2 of the Rockford 300/2's, if you MUST have FM !!
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 412
From: Indianapolis IN.
Well firstly Bruce it's a class AB amp which is the kiss of death for your charging system on a bike. These amps also get very hot and are not very efficient. If you have written off the class D amps your choices are very limited. You've got JM, Arc, Rockford or Biketronics with Rockford being the cheapest of the four. If I were you I would take the high road and not let one ******* at rockford cause you to write off the company as a whole. They actually do produce a good product for the most part and one bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch. The PBR300X2 is a good amp. Out of the 20 or so I've installed I've only had to send back one. Just get the dam thing from an authorized dealer and if you have a problem you can send it back. Sonic Electronics or Crutchfield is a good place to start. Never had a problem sending anything back to those two companies.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 412
From: Indianapolis IN.
Stay away from the AB amps and those two questions go away. The Harley charging system does just fine with BR and Class D amps.
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 177
Likes: 1
From: Atlanta
This is a tough situation. If RF jumps in publicly and offers to replace the amp, that would set the precedent for everyone to expect similar treatment in the future for purchases from unauthorized sellers.
Buying from an authorized reseller is a very expensive insurance policy. Using Crutchfield as an example, prices are close to double for many items compared to other options.
If I only purchased one product in my entire life, the extra money might be worth it. However, if you look at risk vs. cost over many purchases, it usually makes more financial sense to pay less, especially if the savings are significant.
Example: If you buy 20 items at a 40% discount, over 8 of them would have to fail prematurely for that to be a bad choice. With normal failure rates for modern electronics below 5% (1 in 20), that's not likely to happen.
Not only that, but most manufacturer warranties don't cover other items damaged by theirs, or any reinstallation labor. So how about paying the authorized reseller double, but you're still out the speaker that got fried and all of the labor to swap the amp. None of that is covered. And you paid double.
Does it stink when something fails? Yes. But if you've been saving all along you can throw it away and you're still way ahead.
There are piles of exceptions, of course, like products with low discounts, high failure rates (e.g. Polk MM651 speakers), the cost of stress, etc. So sometimes it does make sense to pay more up front. But for a reliable amp like the pbr300x2, it doesn't seem to.
Just my 8 cents.
Buying from an authorized reseller is a very expensive insurance policy. Using Crutchfield as an example, prices are close to double for many items compared to other options.
If I only purchased one product in my entire life, the extra money might be worth it. However, if you look at risk vs. cost over many purchases, it usually makes more financial sense to pay less, especially if the savings are significant.
Example: If you buy 20 items at a 40% discount, over 8 of them would have to fail prematurely for that to be a bad choice. With normal failure rates for modern electronics below 5% (1 in 20), that's not likely to happen.
Not only that, but most manufacturer warranties don't cover other items damaged by theirs, or any reinstallation labor. So how about paying the authorized reseller double, but you're still out the speaker that got fried and all of the labor to swap the amp. None of that is covered. And you paid double.
Does it stink when something fails? Yes. But if you've been saving all along you can throw it away and you're still way ahead.
There are piles of exceptions, of course, like products with low discounts, high failure rates (e.g. Polk MM651 speakers), the cost of stress, etc. So sometimes it does make sense to pay more up front. But for a reliable amp like the pbr300x2, it doesn't seem to.
Just my 8 cents.
Last edited by heckfrozeover; Aug 17, 2014 at 03:54 PM.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 412
From: Indianapolis IN.
This is a tough situation. If RF jumps in publicly and offers to replace the amp, that would set the precedent for everyone to expect similar treatment in the future for purchases from unauthorized sellers.
Buying from an authorized reseller is a very expensive insurance policy. Using Crutchfield as an example, prices are close to double for many items compared to other options.
If I only purchased one product in my entire life, the extra money might be worth it. However, if you look at risk vs. cost over many purchases, it usually makes more financial sense to pay less, especially if the savings are significant.
Explanation: Let's say the failure rate on new and/or factory refurbished items is about 5%. Over many years and many purchases, you buy 20 items at a 40% overall discount via unauthorized dealers or buying refurbished. To make that a bad financial decision, over 40% of the items (over 8 of them) would have to fail prematurely. Statistically at a 5% failure rate 1 will fail.
Now, normal failure rates for modern electronics are way below 5% putting the odds even more in your favor, but you get the point. Product research and seller feedback go a long way in minimizing the risks.
Does it stink when something fails? Yes. But if you've been saving all along you can throw it away and you're still way ahead.
Not only that, but most manufacturer warranties don't cover other items damaged by theirs, or any reinstallation labor. So how about paying the authorized reseller double, but you're still out the speaker that got fried and all of the labor to swap the amp. None of that is covered. And you paid double.
There are piles of exceptions, of course, like products with low discounts, high failure rates (e.g. Polk MM651 speakers), the cost of stress, etc. So sometimes it does make sense to pay more up front. But for a reliable amp like the pbr300x2, it doesn't seem to.
Just my 8 cents.
Buying from an authorized reseller is a very expensive insurance policy. Using Crutchfield as an example, prices are close to double for many items compared to other options.
If I only purchased one product in my entire life, the extra money might be worth it. However, if you look at risk vs. cost over many purchases, it usually makes more financial sense to pay less, especially if the savings are significant.
Explanation: Let's say the failure rate on new and/or factory refurbished items is about 5%. Over many years and many purchases, you buy 20 items at a 40% overall discount via unauthorized dealers or buying refurbished. To make that a bad financial decision, over 40% of the items (over 8 of them) would have to fail prematurely. Statistically at a 5% failure rate 1 will fail.
Now, normal failure rates for modern electronics are way below 5% putting the odds even more in your favor, but you get the point. Product research and seller feedback go a long way in minimizing the risks.
Does it stink when something fails? Yes. But if you've been saving all along you can throw it away and you're still way ahead.
Not only that, but most manufacturer warranties don't cover other items damaged by theirs, or any reinstallation labor. So how about paying the authorized reseller double, but you're still out the speaker that got fried and all of the labor to swap the amp. None of that is covered. And you paid double.
There are piles of exceptions, of course, like products with low discounts, high failure rates (e.g. Polk MM651 speakers), the cost of stress, etc. So sometimes it does make sense to pay more up front. But for a reliable amp like the pbr300x2, it doesn't seem to.
Just my 8 cents.
Good 8 cents! On the other hand looking at this thing from a customer service standpoint Rockford would be money ahead to replace the customers amp. They would stand to make more money providing good customer service than worrying about setting a precedent for returning amps. furthermore, if the reliability rate is 1 in 100 failures they are not looking at a major impact on their bottom line. Case and point: Biketronics is a much smaller company and their products have a LIFETIME warranty and everybody I know loves their customer service. Customer Service is the name of the game if you want to survive in todays marketplace.
Thread Starter
|
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 235
Likes: 76
From: Surrey, British Columbia . Canada
Ok as for being an A/B amp I have no clue on what that means, I was not trying to reinvent the wheel just trying to find an amp that would fit in the fairing and trying to stay away from a D class.
Yes in this day and age I do still listen to FM. I don’t mind radio stations as they keep me informed on the ride to and from work. I also live in Canada and order a lot of stuff from the US and have a US shipping address so I am going across the border at least 2 to 3 times a month. Before I start heading down there on the way home from work I like to know what the border lines ups are so if they are long I will go another day. I do not own a cell phone and yes you read that right so I get my information from the traffic reports.
As for an A/B amp being hard on my charging system, didn’t know that, but on the other side my charging system has had a pretty easy life because every light on my bike is LED and I don’t have anything heated so the only draw on it is the stereo.
As for buying from an authorized dealer, I did just that, but what pisses me off is that RF says “oh they are only authorized to sell in there retail store and not online” give me a fricken break, you gave them permission to sell your product.
So ya it looks like I either spend $500 on an amp from Biketronics or JM’s or give another RF amp another try even though they have idiots running the company. I don’t think I will go with two amps but maybe just go with their 4 ch. Amp. When I had just the PBR300x2 I found that my front speakers over powered the rears so I would like the 4 ch so I can have the adjustment. I know you drop down to 75 watts with the PBR300X4 but now after playing with the PBR300X2 I have found out it has way more power than I would ever use. My HU volume goes up to 50 on the volume and when I am playing my MP3’s doing 120Kms it is blasting pretty loud just at 20. Guys riding way behind me say they can hear my stereo. If I turn it up to 25, I cannot even hear my bike running so I think 75 watts would still be plenty.
Just very surprised that RF is a vendor on here and they have chosen not to say anything.
Thanks everyone for their input.
Bruce
Yes in this day and age I do still listen to FM. I don’t mind radio stations as they keep me informed on the ride to and from work. I also live in Canada and order a lot of stuff from the US and have a US shipping address so I am going across the border at least 2 to 3 times a month. Before I start heading down there on the way home from work I like to know what the border lines ups are so if they are long I will go another day. I do not own a cell phone and yes you read that right so I get my information from the traffic reports.
As for an A/B amp being hard on my charging system, didn’t know that, but on the other side my charging system has had a pretty easy life because every light on my bike is LED and I don’t have anything heated so the only draw on it is the stereo.
As for buying from an authorized dealer, I did just that, but what pisses me off is that RF says “oh they are only authorized to sell in there retail store and not online” give me a fricken break, you gave them permission to sell your product.
So ya it looks like I either spend $500 on an amp from Biketronics or JM’s or give another RF amp another try even though they have idiots running the company. I don’t think I will go with two amps but maybe just go with their 4 ch. Amp. When I had just the PBR300x2 I found that my front speakers over powered the rears so I would like the 4 ch so I can have the adjustment. I know you drop down to 75 watts with the PBR300X4 but now after playing with the PBR300X2 I have found out it has way more power than I would ever use. My HU volume goes up to 50 on the volume and when I am playing my MP3’s doing 120Kms it is blasting pretty loud just at 20. Guys riding way behind me say they can hear my stereo. If I turn it up to 25, I cannot even hear my bike running so I think 75 watts would still be plenty.
Just very surprised that RF is a vendor on here and they have chosen not to say anything.
Thanks everyone for their input.
Bruce
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 412
From: Indianapolis IN.
This is about as simple as I can explain Bruce:
Class D means higher efficiency at let's say about 77%. That's 77% of usable power that's reaching your speakers and 23% wasted as heat. Now the class A/B on the other hand is let's say about 56% efficient; that means that 56% of the power is going to your speakers while 44% is wasted as heat. The extra current draw is the downside of the class A/B design. Hence is the reason why we should not be using class A/B amplifiers on our bikes with limited charging systems. Hope that helps brother.
Class D means higher efficiency at let's say about 77%. That's 77% of usable power that's reaching your speakers and 23% wasted as heat. Now the class A/B on the other hand is let's say about 56% efficient; that means that 56% of the power is going to your speakers while 44% is wasted as heat. The extra current draw is the downside of the class A/B design. Hence is the reason why we should not be using class A/B amplifiers on our bikes with limited charging systems. Hope that helps brother.
Last edited by Gannicus; Aug 18, 2014 at 12:57 AM.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Southpaw Super Glide: A Left-Hand-Drive 1979 Harley FXE Built to Fit the Rider
Verdad Gallardo
The Best and Worst Harley-Davidson Moves of 2025
Verdad Gallardo
Thread Starter
|
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 235
Likes: 76
From: Surrey, British Columbia . Canada
This is about as simple as I can explain Bruce:
Class D means higher efficiency at let's say about 77%. That's 77% of usable power that's reaching your speakers and 23% wasted as heat. Now the class A/B on the other hand is let's say is about 56% efficient; that means that 56% of the power is going to your speakers while 44% is wasted as heat. The extra current draw is the downside of the class A/B design. Hence is the reason why we should not be using class A/B amplifiers on our bikes with limited charging systems. Hope that helps brother.
Class D means higher efficiency at let's say about 77%. That's 77% of usable power that's reaching your speakers and 23% wasted as heat. Now the class A/B on the other hand is let's say is about 56% efficient; that means that 56% of the power is going to your speakers while 44% is wasted as heat. The extra current draw is the downside of the class A/B design. Hence is the reason why we should not be using class A/B amplifiers on our bikes with limited charging systems. Hope that helps brother.
Thanks Gannicus for your time.
I guess I will go with the PBR300X4 and order it from Sonic, I have bought lots from Sonic with no problems, they offer a One year Warranty so that should be good. They don't have any in stock right now so will have to wait.
Bruce
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 434
Likes: 2
From: Wisconsin
I would reconsider ordering the PBR300x4, do yourself a favor and do a search here on this forum on that model. Lots of guys (and gals) use it and are okay with it, but it isn't anywhere near as good as the PBR300x2.