Use your brakes
Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 11,469
Likes: 3,572
From: Idaho
I disagree. If you are on a bike which is capable of transferring nearly 100 percent of the weight to the front wheel during heavy braking, the rear brake will not only do nothing to stop you faster, but it will also contribute to loss of directional control if slight brake application stops the rear wheel from turning.
For an example of 100% weight transfer, think "stoppies". Some Harleys will do them, and some won't. And some depends on how the bike is loaded. So it's really a case-by-case situation.
For an example of 100% weight transfer, think "stoppies". Some Harleys will do them, and some won't. And some depends on how the bike is loaded. So it's really a case-by-case situation.
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,301
Likes: 24
From: Minden LA
Sorry I had to start this junk, winter sucks, I get squirrely.
This has been an entertaining read. I like the ones who list extenuating circumstances, to prove one rule won't always work, as if everybody didn't already know. Like if a seagull craps and it gets in your eye and you can't see so at the last second you grab the front brake only and go over the handlebars into the back of a pick up carrying a cow. You smash face first into the cows ****, get cow shat all over then fall back on the road and the car behind you runs you over cause she was talking on the cell phone and forgot her brakes were bad. Front brakes didn't do any good there.
This has been an entertaining read. I like the ones who list extenuating circumstances, to prove one rule won't always work, as if everybody didn't already know. Like if a seagull craps and it gets in your eye and you can't see so at the last second you grab the front brake only and go over the handlebars into the back of a pick up carrying a cow. You smash face first into the cows ****, get cow shat all over then fall back on the road and the car behind you runs you over cause she was talking on the cell phone and forgot her brakes were bad. Front brakes didn't do any good there.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,442
Likes: 418
From: South Carolina
The best way to not crash in a panic situation is to not get in a panic situation to begin with.
If that's unavoidable (and sometimes it is, I don't care what anyone says) you need to have an instinctual feel of your bike and know what your braking thresholds are. All of this 80/30, 70%, weight transfer, and everything else goes right out the goddam window. A car, or a kid, or a dog, or whatever jumps out in front of you at 15, or 40, or 80 MPH and you're gonna grab a handful, and hopefully footfull of lever.
I'll go to my grave believing that you should use both brakes all the time. I'll go to my grave believing that ABS is vastly superior to human finger modulation. I'll go to my grave believing that racing or riding dirt bikes helps you learn critical skills.
Whether others agree with me doesn't matter to me at all. If someone thinks they're a better rider than me, cool. If someone asks me for riding advice, cool. If someone offers me tips to try and save my ***, cool. Let's just all ride safe out there...
If that's unavoidable (and sometimes it is, I don't care what anyone says) you need to have an instinctual feel of your bike and know what your braking thresholds are. All of this 80/30, 70%, weight transfer, and everything else goes right out the goddam window. A car, or a kid, or a dog, or whatever jumps out in front of you at 15, or 40, or 80 MPH and you're gonna grab a handful, and hopefully footfull of lever.
I'll go to my grave believing that you should use both brakes all the time. I'll go to my grave believing that ABS is vastly superior to human finger modulation. I'll go to my grave believing that racing or riding dirt bikes helps you learn critical skills.
Whether others agree with me doesn't matter to me at all. If someone thinks they're a better rider than me, cool. If someone asks me for riding advice, cool. If someone offers me tips to try and save my ***, cool. Let's just all ride safe out there...
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,758
Likes: 196
From: Boise, ID
You can't teach somebody something they think they already know. There's 45 years experience and there's 1 year experience 45 times over. The fact that someone is still alive to post on the internet is not empirical evidence that they know how to properly ride a motorcycle. EVERYBODY thinks they're a great motorcycle rider. If they didn't, they wouldn't ride. Some even think they're so good that they can ride after having a drink/beer or lighting up. In the end, you have to ask yourself; why bang my head against the wall for something that will eventually sort itself out? (If someone actually gets out there and rides frequently)
Statistically, somebody has to crash. All you have to do is make sure it isn't you. In my opinion, nothing is ever accomplished by all this internet hand jobbing. But, that is an opinion and only worth what you paid for it
Statistically, somebody has to crash. All you have to do is make sure it isn't you. In my opinion, nothing is ever accomplished by all this internet hand jobbing. But, that is an opinion and only worth what you paid for it
But I get what you are trying to say! LOL
More learning and training are always good. Or at least as it is quality of course.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,758
Likes: 196
From: Boise, ID
Some of the new HD's now have "Reflex" braking and ABS. Applies both front and rear brakes when you pull the lever or push on the pedal. I don't know all the specifics on them but they do "shut off" below a certain speed.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,217
Likes: 90
From: Detroit
Use of either the front or rear brake will transfer weight off the rear wheel, and onto to the front wheel.
This is partly because the center of mass of the motorcycle is well above the tire contact patch, so any acceleration or deceleration force applied through that contact patch will result in a weight shift.
And partly because there is a torque reaction when any kind of rotational force is applied to the wheels (either engine or braking force). Apply a force to the wheel in one direction, and the motorcycle wants to rotate in the opposite direction.
Last edited by Warp Factor; Dec 17, 2015 at 03:20 PM.
Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 11,469
Likes: 3,572
From: Idaho
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not lol But if you end up with zero weight on the rear tire it is because you've used the front brake only. Using a little bit of the rear brake will make sure the rear stays down.
Look it up. The 80-20% ratio is pretty common. This is what they teach you in motorcycle classes.
Look it up. The 80-20% ratio is pretty common. This is what they teach you in motorcycle classes.
The "80-20", or 70-30, or whatever number you want to use, is absolutely not always correct. It depends on what kind of bike, and how much effort you're exerting with the two tires. You always want a balanced stop, and the part that inexperienced riders don't understand is that those two numbers are changing during the stop. You start out by exerting strong braking force with both tires, for a split second, and then as the weight transfers to the front tire you begin to dramatically increase the force on the front, but at the same time you must begin to reduce the braking force on the rear, because the amount of downforce on the rear tire is dropping. If you don't reduce the braking force on the rear tire, it will lock as the weight shifts to the front.
Yup, they only engage above 20-25 mph. An interesting detail is that if you only hit the rear brake, and the linked system automatically engages the front, it's only one rotor, the left.
Last edited by IdahoHacker; Dec 17, 2015 at 12:46 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,217
Likes: 90
From: Detroit
No, this is not correct. If you're in a stoppie it's not because you used the front brake only, it's because you used the front brake way, way too hard, and didn't release it when the rear tire started to lift off the ground.
The "80-20", or 70-30, or whatever number you want to use, is absolutely not always correct. It depends on what kind of bike, and how much effort you're exerting with the two tires. You always want a balanced stop, and the part that inexperienced riders don't understand is that those two numbers are changing during the stop. You start out by exerting strong braking force with both tires, for a split second, and then as the weight transfers to the front tire you begin to dramatically increase the force on the front, but at the same time you must begin to reduce the braking force on the rear, because the amount of downforce on the rear tire is dropping. If you don't reduce the braking force on the rear tire, it will lock as the weight shifts to the front.
The "80-20", or 70-30, or whatever number you want to use, is absolutely not always correct. It depends on what kind of bike, and how much effort you're exerting with the two tires. You always want a balanced stop, and the part that inexperienced riders don't understand is that those two numbers are changing during the stop. You start out by exerting strong braking force with both tires, for a split second, and then as the weight transfers to the front tire you begin to dramatically increase the force on the front, but at the same time you must begin to reduce the braking force on the rear, because the amount of downforce on the rear tire is dropping. If you don't reduce the braking force on the rear tire, it will lock as the weight shifts to the front.
When riding in rain, I'll tend to put the braking force more along the lines of 50/50. There isn't enough tire traction to induce major weight transfer, whereas I might put nearly 100 percent on the front brake in a better traction situation.
Last edited by Warp Factor; Dec 17, 2015 at 03:18 PM.
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Grand HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,758
Likes: 196
From: Boise, ID
Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 11,469
Likes: 3,572
From: Idaho
Bingo! Gentle, gentle, even more gentle.