My guess is that you have been one of the fortunate ones, which I normally am not. But, I will stick with my experience, and that of several major mfrs like Honda, Startron and Sta-Bil who make the marine formula to fight these non-existent problems. Roll on with the same fortune.

 

Lots of companies have made money from problems that didn't really exist. Look at all the magic spark plugs, and various forms of voodoo fuel economizers that have come and gone over the years.

 

Nah, I am going to look at the racing community, the aviation and marine industries that use non-eth for some reason....and it ain't octane which is a simple additive that slows combustion.

 

Sounds like you haven't done your homework!
Actually, E-85 has become very popular as a "race gas", not only for hot rodders, but a number of pro race series use various amounts of ethanol content, from NASCAR to the American LeMans series to Indy (last I read, I think Indy was using E-85).

And of course, methanol has been a major fuel for extreme power production for many many years, as in "blown alcohol" dragsters. Ethanol is pretty close to methanol in power potential, but has the added advantage of being less corrosive and way less poisonous.

By the way, increased octane doesn't necessarily slow down combustion. It increases high-temperature stability, making it more resistant to spontaneous ignition. One might say that it's harder to ignite in the first place. Once ignited, the burn rate tends to be about the same.

 

The wonderful part of all this is; if you want to put E 15 into your tank, you can and if E 0 is your poison you can use that too. Thats just the kind of wonderful world we live in. Hell, you could top off a tank with a bottle of cheap Canadian whiskey if you want. I don't know how it works as a fuel but it certainly tastes like gasoline.

 

Well, obviously, no one else cares about the fuel question, and we could continue to banter this forever....so I will make this my last, and you can have the last word. Actually, when you bring up "fuelies" and E85 race engines, you are now in another world entirely, where engines are designed to raise the compression ratios to the moon to increase both power and efficiency, which was the world of the chrysler hemi, since most of the other mfrs could not stand the stresses. Same today for the specialized racers using high alcohol fuels like E85....they ain't harleys. Couple other minor issues are that all alcohols have much less energy levels than gas, kinda like the difference between heating your house with fuel oil, or using propane for the same price per gallon with only about 60% of the higher heating value (energy). Alcohol same deal...we pay same but get less. And my final point will be that when they deliver the poison (ethanol mixes), they add the alky as they are delivering, since it is so fragile (water hygro and separating). Course these problems lead to all kinds of problems like poor starting, the well documented corrosion problems, but you can call yourself "green", I guess. I know, as a part time farmer, that the big boys love to grow corn, and they have another market. I also wonder what the actual cost of production is, as with solar panels that take huge amounts of energy to construct some of the crystaline components. Kind of like those that think they are getting zero emission energy for their electric cars.....another circular argument. Bottom line, if you like the ethanol, keep using it....I don't care for it, for any reason whatever. I will put up with it in the bikes during the fast season here in virginia, for convenience only. cheers

 

You are the one who brought up the racing community, in post #33, so I thought it might be OK to address that in my response in post #34.
Ethanol fuels are not inherently more stressful on an engine. In fact, they reduce stresses in some ways on an engine like a Harley, because they lower operating temperatures. When ethanol is vaporized, it cools much more than gasoline does. In fact, a buddy of mine who runs E-85 in a twin-turbo boat has trouble getting the oil temperature up to the point where he's comfortable running it hard.

The only time there is additional stress is when the engine is built specifically to maximize the power advantages of the superior detonation resistance of the higher alcohol blends. The flex-fuel vehicles, for example, don't take much advantage of this, because they must also be capable of running gasoline. So there is no increased stress.


Yes, flex-fuel vehicles get poorer fuel economy when they are running E-85, than when they are running gasoline. E-10 economy will be slightly worse than straight gasoline too. But cost-per-mile for E-10 will still usually be quite a bit lower than straight gasoline, when one considers the typically higher cost of straight gasoline, and the extra distance one might need to travel to buy it.

On the politics side of ethanol, people can argue about that all they want. It doesn't particularly interest me. I'm more interested in the engineering side of things. My main point is that contrary to all the internet horror myths, ethanol enhanced gas (and even pure ethanol) works just fine as a motor fuel, in vehicles which are designed for it. No, the sky isn't falling.

And ethanol nothing new. Brazil has had cars running on pure alcohol for years (made from sugar cane), and the original Model T Ford was a "flex-fuel" car, designed to run on gasoline, alcohol, or kerosene. Increasing production of gasoline (gasoline was originally a by-product of making kerosene for kerosene lamps), along with dropping gasoline prices, along with the enaction of Prohibition laws, kind of killed the use of alcohol as a motor fuel though during that era. Now, it's starting to make a comeback.

More than half of Brazil's motor fuel comes from ethanol

 

From my owners manual; FWIW

GASOLINE BLENDS

Your motorcycle was designed to get the best performance
and efficiency using unleaded gasoline. Most gasoline is
blendedwith alcohol and/or ether to create oxygenated blends.
The type and amount of alcohol or ether added to the fuel is
important.

NOTICE
Do not use gasoline that contains methanol.Doing so can
result in fuel system component failure, engine damage
and/or equipment malfunction. (001483)

- Gasoline/METHYL TERTIARY BUTYL ETHER (MTBE)
blends are a mixture of gasoline and as much as 15 percent
MTBE.Gasoline/MTBE blends use in your motorcycle
is approved.

- ETHANOL fuel is a mixture of ethanol (grain alcohol) and
unleaded gasoline and can have an impact on fuel
mileage.Fuels with an ethanol content of up to 10percent
may be used in your motorcycle without affecting vehicle
performance. US. EPA regulations currently indicate that
fuels with 15percent ethanol (E15)are restricted from use
in motorcycles at the time of this publication. Some
motorcycles are calibrated to operate with higher ethanol
concentrations to meet the fuel standards in certain
countries.

. REFORMULATED OR OXYGENATED GASOLINES
(RFG) describes gasoline blends that are specifically
designed to burn cleaner than other types of gasoline.
This results in fewer tailpipe emissions. They are also
formulated to evaporate less when filling the tank. Reformulated
gasolines use additives to oxygenate the gas.
Your motorcycle will run normally using this type of fuel.
Harley-Davidson recommends using it whenever possible
as an aid to cleaner air in our environment.

- Do not use racing fuel or fuel containing methanol. Use
of these fuels will damage the fuel system.

- Using fuel additives other than those approved for use by
Harley-Davidson may damage the engine, fuel system
and other components.

Some gasoline blends might adversely affect starting, driveability
or fuel efficiency. If any of these problems are experienced.
try a different brand of gasoline or gasoline with a higher octane
blend.

 

Okay, new twist to the question. The local station has brought back non-ethanol gasoline but it is 91 octane. So the question is, run 93 octane ethanol or run 91 octane non-ethanol? I am leaning towards the non-ethanol but if the extra 2 octane is that important then maybe not.

 

What oct. is your engine tuned for? Use that.