Dumb Question...
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,907
Likes: 8,756
From: Galt's Gulch - MI
I've owned more sport bikes and track bikes than I have HD's. I can both upshift and downshift without using the clutch on them. It's all about timing, coordination, and rev matching when you do it, both up and down.
On my HD's? I use the clutch lever
You can preload the shift peg and it will take just a quick stab at the lever for smooth shifting, on both upshifts and downshifts with an HD. But, in the long term, use the clutch...
On my HD's? I use the clutch lever
You can preload the shift peg and it will take just a quick stab at the lever for smooth shifting, on both upshifts and downshifts with an HD. But, in the long term, use the clutch...
Banned
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 4,576
Likes: 978
From: Viet Vet, crossroads
Big semi trucks are shifted without using the clutch- they are big slow turning engines, yes even slower then Harley.
Some will double clutch-same difference esp if shifting dwn to get the main shaft up to speed.
The gears are truly big in the transmissions and makes it quite a bit more EZ.
Here is the trick which is imposable to do with any M/C transmission I know of-
As you go up a gear or dwn a gear the driver matches what the RPM will be as if the gear is already selected- AS they do through NEUTRAL!
Thats the key,- and there is no way to do that with a M/C trans.
All you are doing is slamming it in gear.
In a BIG truck, if you use the clutch and manage to get into gear without the rpm matched, you will be in for a very expensive surprise.
What you SHOULD be doing is using the clutch and accelerator together when shifting down.
When shifting dwn you rev the engine to match the next gear so your rear tire is not trying to brake or chirp.
However -like said- you may do it any way you wish.
Its your money.
Some will double clutch-same difference esp if shifting dwn to get the main shaft up to speed.
The gears are truly big in the transmissions and makes it quite a bit more EZ.
Here is the trick which is imposable to do with any M/C transmission I know of-
As you go up a gear or dwn a gear the driver matches what the RPM will be as if the gear is already selected- AS they do through NEUTRAL!
Thats the key,- and there is no way to do that with a M/C trans.
All you are doing is slamming it in gear.
In a BIG truck, if you use the clutch and manage to get into gear without the rpm matched, you will be in for a very expensive surprise.
What you SHOULD be doing is using the clutch and accelerator together when shifting down.
When shifting dwn you rev the engine to match the next gear so your rear tire is not trying to brake or chirp.
However -like said- you may do it any way you wish.
Its your money.
Last edited by Kingglide549; Jul 3, 2018 at 04:48 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 438
Likes: 57
Big semi trucks are shifted without using the clutch- they are big slow turning engines, yes even slower then Harley.
Some will double clutch-same difference esp if shifting dwn to get the main shaft up to speed.
The gears are truly big in the transmissions and makes it quite a bit more EZ.
Here is the trick which is imposable to do with any M/C transmission I know of-
As you go up a gear or dwn a gear the driver matches what the RPM will be as if the gear is already selected- AS they do through NEUTRAL!
Thats the key,- and there is no way to do that with a M/C trans.
All you are doing is slamming it in gear.
In a BIG truck, if you use the clutch and manage to get into gear without the rpm matched, you will be in for a very expensive surprise.
What you SHOULD be doing is using the clutch and accelerator together when shifting down.
When shifting dwn you rev the engine to match the next gear so your rear tire is not trying to brake or chirp.
However -like said- you may do it any way you wish.
Its your money.
Some will double clutch-same difference esp if shifting dwn to get the main shaft up to speed.
The gears are truly big in the transmissions and makes it quite a bit more EZ.
Here is the trick which is imposable to do with any M/C transmission I know of-
As you go up a gear or dwn a gear the driver matches what the RPM will be as if the gear is already selected- AS they do through NEUTRAL!
Thats the key,- and there is no way to do that with a M/C trans.
All you are doing is slamming it in gear.
In a BIG truck, if you use the clutch and manage to get into gear without the rpm matched, you will be in for a very expensive surprise.
What you SHOULD be doing is using the clutch and accelerator together when shifting down.
When shifting dwn you rev the engine to match the next gear so your rear tire is not trying to brake or chirp.
However -like said- you may do it any way you wish.
Its your money.
Why is it imposiible to rev match w/ a motorcycle transmission (or any other transmission)?
Last edited by MMH; Jul 3, 2018 at 04:57 PM.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 438
Likes: 57
Oh wait, as long as we are making irrelevant comparisons, I forgot to ask, how does a harley transmission compare to a hydrostat transmission? How do they even work w/ no clutches?
Banned
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 4,576
Likes: 978
From: Viet Vet, crossroads
MMH
You are an arsshole
Go shift you freekin thing anyway you want.
if you want more lessons on how things work take a class
.We all did our best with you
<iframe width="821" height="462" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/W9LXG7rPQfE" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=funny+transmission+commercial&atb=v99-2_g&ia=videos&iax=videos&iai=W9LXG7rPQfE
You are an arsshole
Go shift you freekin thing anyway you want.
if you want more lessons on how things work take a class
.We all did our best with you
<iframe width="821" height="462" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/W9LXG7rPQfE" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=funny+transmission+commercial&atb=v99-2_g&ia=videos&iax=videos&iai=W9LXG7rPQfE
Last edited by Kingglide549; Jul 3, 2018 at 06:30 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 273
From: Minnesota
It's simple really,, your quoting the manual.
There is no motorcycle manufacturer of clutch driven motorcycles that recommends you "not" use the clutch while shifting.(period)
Do Harley owners understand engine RPM and tranny sync, Yes.
Do Harley owners "speed shift", Some do,, Some don't.
Do Harley owners expect the MOCO to recommend in writing that it's OK to abuse their clutch system and transmission gears by not using the clutch? No.
Do all motorcycle owners that read manuals even grasp this concept?(?)(?)
Get it? , , So that's why they're ganging on ya dude.
With this being your first Harley,, keep in mind that the olde V-twin big jug engine is/and has,, a different performance and load gear ratio.
Hint;
Don't tell your dealer or repair shop about your non-clutch use admission as in this topic.
p.s. And kickin it down,, sounds cool,, but that's about the worst,, and will **** off the neighbors,, yeah,, it's a Harley,, they know that,, have respect.
Last edited by JohnMn; Jul 3, 2018 at 06:34 PM.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 11,448
Likes: 2,299
From: NW Ohio
OP, you're asking for advice about a technique that nobody here uses. Maybe 1/1000. I don't think we can provide any meaningful prediction about long term durability. Therefore, "better safe than sorry".
There ARE reports of broken shifter pawls, so our trannys aren't bulletproof.
End the end it comes down to your risk tolerance and pocketbook. If you don't mind being the guinea pig and footing the bill for a repair, why not. If the idea of a trans rebuild puts you off, play it safe.
There ARE reports of broken shifter pawls, so our trannys aren't bulletproof.
End the end it comes down to your risk tolerance and pocketbook. If you don't mind being the guinea pig and footing the bill for a repair, why not. If the idea of a trans rebuild puts you off, play it safe.
