I’m now 65 years old and I’ve been riding enduro my whole life. ‘Always dreamed of getting a Harley and recently bought a 2016 Dyna Wide Glide from Boswells HD in Nashville - totally stock with only 1,100 miles. I love it.
This 103 twin cam 1690cc has all the power I need, but I want to hear the loud rumble of aftermarket pipes. The HD techs say I must spend about a thousand bucks to tune any new exhaust pipes.
My respected friend and multi Harley owner is a DIY HD mechanic for a local MC chapter. He says dealers just want my money and that an expensive computerized tune is an unnecessary expense. .
What are your thoughts/opinions?
Thanks for your time.

 

I agree with your friend. The dealer is asking too much for something so simple.

I would retune it though. Twin Cams run hot with stock tuning and free flowing pipes can change that for the worse.

If it were mine, I'd buy a Power Vision from Fuel Moto. Tell them what pipes you're installing and they'll send the appropriate map with it. If you buy the tuner from them, they'll support you if you change the cams or make other upgrades later.

That's a nice ride. I hope you have a lot of fun with it.

 

Welcome to the HDFORUM. The community team will move your post thread to proper area to be see.

Fill free to post another thread here to say hello.

 

@Cool Pop I have moved this thread from the Welcome section to the Dyna Glide Models section as you will get better responses to your question in this section.
The Welcome section is more for introducing yourself & letting other forum members know what Harley Davidson you own, not asking technical questions.

 

Congrats on your first Harley... Great bike, you will enjoy it!!

I'm no expert.

I'm just a 68 yr old enthusiast who has ridden Harleys since my first new, '78 FXS Shovelhead. I have done most my own maintenance throughout the years. I have done almost all repairs, mods, and service in the last 15+ years. I currently own 4 Twin Cam bikes, and have owned 2 others that I sold. I have dabbled with tunes, mainly with my PowerVision tuner. I even went to a Dynojet class on tuning with a PowerVision tuner, but again, I am no expert.

Here are my thoughts and opinions.

It is a fact that even an all OEM bike can benefit from a retune. If you mod your engine in any way, and don't retune, your bike will never be running at it's best.


IMHO.... If you just change your exhaust to high flow muffler(s) or a total high flow exhaust system, you most likely will not damage the engine, but there are no guarantees.

This is why I have that opinion.

The Twin Cam engines came a little lean from the factory to meet EPA requirements.

The OEM tune on your 2016 Wide Glide has both an open loop portion (no O2 sensor feedback) and closed loop portion (with O2 sensor feedback).

The closed loop portion uses the O2 sensor feedback to make real time adjustments to the AFR (air fuel ratio) as you drive. It should be able to maintain the AFR in the tune, even with minor airflow changes, like an exhaust change.

The Open loop portions of the tune, are based on algorithms that are set based on the equipment the bike came from the factory with. And, as stated, probably cause the bike to run a little on the lean side. If you increase the airflow through the engine, the algorithms don't know that. They will maintain the AFR as if the bike still had the OEM equipment. That will make the bike run even leaner, in the open loop portions of the tune.

The Closed Loop, O2 sensor feedback portion of the tune, is in the low rpm and low load areas of the tune. These areas are mostly in the cruising areas of the tune.

The Open Loop, no O2 sensor feedback portion of the tune, is in the higher RPM and high load areas of the tune.

The tune is split this way, because the narrow band O2 sensors used in OEM applications are only accurate in a small area of the total tune map. But it is the area of the map that most riders spend the most time in.

Here's the kicker...

The open loop portion of the tune, covered by the lean algorithms without benefit of O2 sensor feedback, are high load and high rpm sections of the tune. That is where the AFR is most critical. Your exhaust change, with no retune, will make that area of the tune map even leaner than OEM.

How you ride will dictate to a large degree, your chances of possible damage to your engine with an exhaust change, and no retune.

If you are a mild rider, who rarely gets into the extreme areas of the tune, high load and/or high rpm, you will be fine.

If you are a very spirited rider, or worse a "ride-it-like-you-stole-it" style of rider, increasing the time you spend in open loop, your chances of damaging your engine increase.

I have never left a bike in OEM form, and any time I change the airflow through my engine, I retune the bike for both performance AND safety reasons.

For two close friends who left their bikes totally OEM, I have flashed an "improved OEM tune" in their ECMs. Both were so satisfied with the performance change, that they left the bikes OEM instead of going to a Stage I mod.

I hope the above info & opinions are beneficial to you when making your tune or no tune decision. Others will also share their opinions, and experience too.

Good luck with the new bike, and your mods.

 

Congrats on the 103 , just a set of pipes without air filter , doesn't need a tune , if you add an air filter setup then you definitely need a tune . The twin cams are extremely lean from the factory to comply with emissions standards of the day . Adding some fuel will definitely make the bike run better and last longer , as would suggest getting an external breather system as well which would help keep your piston tops cleaner .

 

Talk to a few Indy's with good reps about your bike. The dealer is the last place to go unless you want to pay $$$ for untrained techs. I think you will be very satisfied with how your bike runs with a good tune.

 

Without knowing what you're going to get for $1k it's pretty hard to say if that's too much or not. If it's just a tune on the dyno, then yes, way, way too much.

I agree with @Rusty Springs that your best bet is to pick up a Power Vision tuner from Fuel Moto and use the tune that they send you for free. Worst case you can just unmarry the tuner and sell it for near what you bought it for. I will say though that a Power Vision is ~$600 so you're pretty damn close to $1k anyhow. IMHO, I would not run that bike with pipes and no tune, I would also not keep the stock AC since there's no sense it making it exhale easier but double mask it on the inhale. If you're happy with the 103" get pipes or slip-ons, AC and a tune and don't look back, you'll love it!

 

As mentioned above, I agree with both of these guys..
@Rusty Springs
@hattitude
Get a Power Vision PV-2b (I personally think it's they're best tuner) from Fuel Moto and they'll be the best support you can get out there. Yeah, even better than Dynojet..
I say the PV-2b because the PV3 and 4 has some issues as well as some limitations, by what I heard..
You will feel the difference.

 

It looks like a high flow air cleaner has already been installed. Did the late model Dynas come with that air cleaner?