Tmax and E85 question.
Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
Tmax and E85 question.
I'm no fuel/engine guru so I thought I would post the question. Especially after reading the 100 octane thread.
I'm just curious about the posibility of running E85 in a TC 96. I realize that it would run super lean in a stock bike, but with the addition of a Tmax......would it be possible...and safe?
From what I understand, E85 carries it's own oxygen molecularly, making it run ultra lean in a system that isn't designed to compensate that much. However, the Tmax uses the wide band sensors and "learns" as it goes. Could it "learn" how to compensate for E85?
I'm just curious about the posibility of running E85 in a TC 96. I realize that it would run super lean in a stock bike, but with the addition of a Tmax......would it be possible...and safe?
From what I understand, E85 carries it's own oxygen molecularly, making it run ultra lean in a system that isn't designed to compensate that much. However, the Tmax uses the wide band sensors and "learns" as it goes. Could it "learn" how to compensate for E85?
Tourer
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 439
Likes: 22
From: League City, Texas
RE: Tmax and E85 question.
You have to have more than just computer help to run E85. The way it was explained to me is, unlike gasoline, E85 is highly corrosive. Thats why they cant use existing infrastructure to supply E85. There has to be new lines, tanks, ect.... same thing with motors. It has to be specific designed to accept E85. If a motor is setup for E85 it can also run on gas, but not the other way around. What we can do however is run race gas....its somewhere around 104 - 107 octane, depending on what you buy. Then you can have that sweet smell coming from the exhaust. When I worked at a stealership , I used to run the stuff in my ZX9 Ninja. Of course with gas at $3+ per gal, no telling what they are charging for race gas now.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
RE: Tmax and E85 question.
I used to do fuel injection tuning on high horsepower import cars. (400+ whp 2.0 liter turbo cars, at times closer to 700 on race vehicles)
E85 has become quite the new fad. If I had the ability to run it (over gasonline), I would..
I think e85 relates to an octane rating of somewhere (dont quote me) 98 to 104, somewhere around there. However its stoichiometric mean is 8:1 while gasonline (octane irregardless) is 14.7:1 thats air:fuel.
Its not really a matter of just ECU tuning as it is fuel supply, bigger lines, higher flowing pump, bigger injectors.
It has nothing to do with the internals of the long block but just the fuel supply..
The power is one thing, its great, it has about a 30% higher knock retention (if thats the right word? its late) then gasoline, so if you know what your doing, 30% more power is pretty sweet. The turbo cars will, no questions asked, gain more then a naturally aspirated (NA) car. The only way an NA car could take benefit is with higher compression and or more aggresive timing so in that case dklozik I agree with you, but likewise there arent that many turbo harleys running around.
The fuel economy however, goes down for reason of the a/f ratios.
e85 has other benefits also, for instance one of my own personal vehicles happened to fail emissions because it was too rich (old k type jetronic, mechanical fuel injection), rather then teach myself how to tune a bosch type fuel injection, I simply put 25% e85 in my tank and it lowered my co (I think, dont have the sheet handy) emissions from 33 to 18 (units irrelevant, limit was 30).
E85 has become quite the new fad. If I had the ability to run it (over gasonline), I would..
I think e85 relates to an octane rating of somewhere (dont quote me) 98 to 104, somewhere around there. However its stoichiometric mean is 8:1 while gasonline (octane irregardless) is 14.7:1 thats air:fuel.
Its not really a matter of just ECU tuning as it is fuel supply, bigger lines, higher flowing pump, bigger injectors.
It has nothing to do with the internals of the long block but just the fuel supply..
The power is one thing, its great, it has about a 30% higher knock retention (if thats the right word? its late) then gasoline, so if you know what your doing, 30% more power is pretty sweet. The turbo cars will, no questions asked, gain more then a naturally aspirated (NA) car. The only way an NA car could take benefit is with higher compression and or more aggresive timing so in that case dklozik I agree with you, but likewise there arent that many turbo harleys running around.
The fuel economy however, goes down for reason of the a/f ratios.
e85 has other benefits also, for instance one of my own personal vehicles happened to fail emissions because it was too rich (old k type jetronic, mechanical fuel injection), rather then teach myself how to tune a bosch type fuel injection, I simply put 25% e85 in my tank and it lowered my co (I think, dont have the sheet handy) emissions from 33 to 18 (units irrelevant, limit was 30).
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Rucker, AL
RE: Tmax and E85 question.
I may be wrong, but I was always under the impression that the problem with E85 was the higher amount of ethanol in it. I thought that they took 85 octane gasoline and added the ethanol to make it a higher octane ratingto producecleaner burning fuel and exhaust. The higher the ethanolthe more rubber and plastic corrodes on your vehicle. Is that right? Therefore, I don't think the upgrades have anything to do with switching out your metal parts (tank), just those that are plastic based...like gaskets, fuel lines, etc. I know that TheJackel is right in his explanation...but bottom line, the main concern for running E85 in your bike would be it running lean and the long-term damage to your valves and premature wear out of anything rubber/plastic.
I don't understand why you want to...more efficiency, fuel economy, power? I don't think you will see much of a performance difference between E85 and regular 93 octane fuel...especially not enough to justify the price of a Tmax. Please, if i am wrong let me know...I try to learn something new every day.
I don't understand why you want to...more efficiency, fuel economy, power? I don't think you will see much of a performance difference between E85 and regular 93 octane fuel...especially not enough to justify the price of a Tmax. Please, if i am wrong let me know...I try to learn something new every day.
Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
RE: Tmax and E85 question.
E85 is 85% Ethanol and 15% Gasoline. It's listed as 105 octane. They also sell an E70 which is 70% Ethanol and 30% gasoline, obviously.
I run E85 in my 99 Ranger. It was the first model year for the flex fuel option. There's a gas station right by my house that sells the stuff. My truck runs noticable better on the E85, with easier start-ups, better acceleration, and no pinging....all with a loss of 4 MPG. Plus the E85 is 60 cents cheaper per gallon here.
Now that you mention it dklozik, I remember the salesman telling me about the different tank lining, etc. of my truck when I bought it 9 years ago.
kev6212, I'm not saying that I'm gonna try and convert the Bob to run E85......that's not my goal. I'll be getting a Tmax real soon (tax return) anyway, and was just pondering the idea of E85 and wether the Tmax could handle it.........just for shitz and giggles.
I run E85 in my 99 Ranger. It was the first model year for the flex fuel option. There's a gas station right by my house that sells the stuff. My truck runs noticable better on the E85, with easier start-ups, better acceleration, and no pinging....all with a loss of 4 MPG. Plus the E85 is 60 cents cheaper per gallon here.
Now that you mention it dklozik, I remember the salesman telling me about the different tank lining, etc. of my truck when I bought it 9 years ago.
kev6212, I'm not saying that I'm gonna try and convert the Bob to run E85......that's not my goal. I'll be getting a Tmax real soon (tax return) anyway, and was just pondering the idea of E85 and wether the Tmax could handle it.........just for shitz and giggles.
Road Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 941
Likes: 27
From:
RE: Tmax and E85 question.
http://www.e85mustangs.com/tuning.htmlthis would be a good read for you.
I think the Tmax would eventually get it but they most likely wouldn't have a map for you so it would take awhile. I know I could get my DTT TCFI to work but I can go in and change the map manualy. Which I think is not possible on a Tmax without there license. Your problems will be in what others have mentioned the alcohol drying out the rubber and plastic parts. I am sure it could be done but would take some research and parts in o-rings, linesetc to be safe. No mods and just running it would work for awhile but leaks would develop causing issues and a possible unsafe condition.
I think the Tmax would eventually get it but they most likely wouldn't have a map for you so it would take awhile. I know I could get my DTT TCFI to work but I can go in and change the map manualy. Which I think is not possible on a Tmax without there license. Your problems will be in what others have mentioned the alcohol drying out the rubber and plastic parts. I am sure it could be done but would take some research and parts in o-rings, linesetc to be safe. No mods and just running it would work for awhile but leaks would develop causing issues and a possible unsafe condition.
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Rucker, AL
RE: Tmax and E85 question.
This is what I like about this forum...always good info. I am glad these questions come up. With the trend of upward gas prices and machines we buy to have for perhaps a lifetime, it is always helpful to know what options are out there to keep up with the trends...who's to say that E85 may not one day be the standard...just a thought.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
dhc8guru
Exhaust System Topics
5
May 3, 2007 12:01 PM
