Zero to 60
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RE: Zero to 60
ORIGINAL: NorCalDyna
And now for some really fast acceleration
 \\;\\\\\\;
06 BMW K1200R 2.84
06 Kawasaki ZX14 2.9
06 Suzuki GSXR1000.........2.35! 0-100 4.96, 1/4 mile 9.55 @ 143.02
And now for some really fast acceleration
 \\;\\\\\\;
06 BMW K1200R 2.84
06 Kawasaki ZX14 2.9
06 Suzuki GSXR1000.........2.35! 0-100 4.96, 1/4 mile 9.55 @ 143.02
I don't know how the GSXR1000 was tested, but it was cheating somehow.
0 - 60 in 2.73 seconds is equal to 1G of force. 2.35 is 1.16 G of force on the tire. With just a 500 lb bike and rider, that means a shear force of 580 lbs on the rubber tire.
 \\;
To accelerate faster than that would require a coefficient of friction of higher than 1.0. So those numbers, if true, would mean that the tires or the surface of the track were doctored to be stickier than normal. There would have to be an additional downforce or something holding \\; it to the road, whether it was previous burnout, etc.
 \\;
Remember, if you are accelerating at just 1.0G, you are experiencing a force backwards equal to your weight. That would be the same as you suspending yourself vertically, holding onto the handlebars like a pull up bar, except for whatever slack your butt can take up.
 \\;
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Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 660
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From: Schaumburg, IL, near Elgin, IL
RE: Zero to 60
This is all too technipickle for me. All I know is that it felt really fast and I liked it.
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Is the Ultra that different? A couple hundred pounds shouldn't make that much difference. I keep hearing that they are way more comfortable, but at this point, I like the quickness of my Dyna.
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Is the Ultra that different? A couple hundred pounds shouldn't make that much difference. I keep hearing that they are way more comfortable, but at this point, I like the quickness of my Dyna.
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From:
RE: Zero to 60
ORIGINAL: NorCalDyna
Wouldn't surprise me if it was on a track with surface treatment. \\;\\\\\\; We know that it's possible to accelerate at faster than 1 G, since drag bikes (let alone cars) do it all the time.
Wouldn't surprise me if it was on a track with surface treatment. \\;\\\\\\; We know that it's possible to accelerate at faster than 1 G, since drag bikes (let alone cars) do it all the time.
You can only accelerate faster than 1 G in two mechanical frictional situations:
 \\;
1. \\; You are stuck to the track or if there is some sort of aerodynamic downforce. Dragbikes and dragsters do it by doing a burnout to soften the tires. There are other rare exception when the surfaces are allowed to distort such as with latex, silicon, or acrylic rubbers that actually can mechanically "grab" a similar surface. I have no knowledge of any tire made of these materials (yet), but it doesn't mean someone won't develop some. The problem is that as sticky as these substances are dry, they are like ice when wet.
 \\;
or:
 \\;
2.  \\;Accelerating \\;through dynamic \\;slipping. \\; \\;The coefficient of friction for a slipping piece of rubber versus static friction is about two or three to one (as I recall. I would have to check). So when the tires start to slip, the forward force on the vehicle falls to about one third to one half. So then you need about three times the torque to continue to accelerate at the same rate. This is also the principle used by ABS brakes in reverse.
 \\;
Dragsters combine both of these effects to accelerate faster than 1G. I general, they soften their tires to become stickier, and then used \\;huge amounts of horsepower to power through the kinetic (dynamic) friction zone. But I don't know of any production bike that is capable of this type of horsepower.
Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 14,564
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From: the 50s & the 60s
RE: Zero to 60
ORIGINAL: Dyna_Soar
 \\;\\\\\\;
You can only accelerate faster than 1 G in two mechanical frictional situations:
 \\;\\\\\\;
1. \\;\\\\\\; You are stuck to the track or if there is some sort of aerodynamic downforce. Dragbikes and dragsters do it by doing a burnout to soften the tires. There are other rare exception when the surfaces are allowed to distort such as with latex, silicon, or acrylic rubbers that actually can mechanically "grab" a similar surface. I have no knowledge of any tire made of these materials (yet), but it doesn't mean someone won't develop some. The problem is that as sticky as these substances are dry, they are like ice when wet.
 \\;\\\\\\;
or:
 \\;\\\\\\;
2.  \\;\\\\\\;Accelerating \\;\\\\\\;throu gh dynamic \\;\\\\\\;slipping. \\;\\\\\\;&nbs p\\;\\\\\\;The coefficient of friction for a slipping piece of rubber versus static friction is about two or three to one (as I recall. I would have to check). So when the tires start to slip, the forward force on the vehicle falls to about one third to one half. So then you need about three times the torque to continue to accelerate at the same rate. This is also the principle used by ABS brakes in reverse.
 \\;\\\\\\;
Dragsters combine both of these effects to accelerate faster than 1G. I general, they soften their tires to become stickier, and then used \\;\\\\\\;huge amounts of horsepower to power through the kinetic (dynamic) friction zone. But I don't know of any production bike that is capable of this type of horsepower.
ORIGINAL: NorCalDyna
Wouldn't surprise me if it was on a track with surface treatment. \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\; We know that it's possible to accelerate at faster than 1 G, since drag bikes (let alone cars) do it all the time.
Wouldn't surprise me if it was on a track with surface treatment. \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\; We know that it's possible to accelerate at faster than 1 G, since drag bikes (let alone cars) do it all the time.
You can only accelerate faster than 1 G in two mechanical frictional situations:
 \\;\\\\\\;
1. \\;\\\\\\; You are stuck to the track or if there is some sort of aerodynamic downforce. Dragbikes and dragsters do it by doing a burnout to soften the tires. There are other rare exception when the surfaces are allowed to distort such as with latex, silicon, or acrylic rubbers that actually can mechanically "grab" a similar surface. I have no knowledge of any tire made of these materials (yet), but it doesn't mean someone won't develop some. The problem is that as sticky as these substances are dry, they are like ice when wet.
 \\;\\\\\\;
or:
 \\;\\\\\\;
2.  \\;\\\\\\;Accelerating \\;\\\\\\;throu gh dynamic \\;\\\\\\;slipping. \\;\\\\\\;&nbs p\\;\\\\\\;The coefficient of friction for a slipping piece of rubber versus static friction is about two or three to one (as I recall. I would have to check). So when the tires start to slip, the forward force on the vehicle falls to about one third to one half. So then you need about three times the torque to continue to accelerate at the same rate. This is also the principle used by ABS brakes in reverse.
 \\;\\\\\\;
Dragsters combine both of these effects to accelerate faster than 1G. I general, they soften their tires to become stickier, and then used \\;\\\\\\;huge amounts of horsepower to power through the kinetic (dynamic) friction zone. But I don't know of any production bike that is capable of this type of horsepower.
So, Soar, what is the absolute quickest a 600 lb machine can move from zero to sixty??
mud
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Joined: May 2008
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From:
RE: Zero to 60
ORIGINAL: mudpuddle
So, Soar, what is the absolute quickest a 600 lb machine can move from zero to sixty??
mud
ORIGINAL: Dyna_Soar
 \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\;
You can only accelerate faster than 1 G in two mechanical frictional situations:
 \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\;
1. \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\; You are stuck to the track or if there is some sort of aerodynamic downforce. Dragbikes and dragsters do it by doing a burnout to soften the tires. There are other rare exception when the surfaces are allowed to distort such as with latex, silicon, or acrylic rubbers that actually can mechanically "grab" a similar surface. I have no knowledge of any tire made of these materials (yet), but it doesn't mean someone won't develop some. The problem is that as sticky as these substances are dry, they are like ice when wet.
 \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\;
or:
 \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\;
2.  \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\;Accelerating \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;through dynamic \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;slipping. \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\; \\;\\\\ \\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;T he coefficient of friction for a slipping piece of rubber versus static friction is about two or three to one (as I recall. I would have to check). So when the tires start to slip, the forward force on the vehicle falls to about one third to one half. So then you need about three times the torque to continue to accelerate at the same rate. This is also the principle used by ABS brakes in reverse.
 \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\;
Dragsters combine both of these effects to accelerate faster than 1G. I general, they soften their tires to become stickier, and then used \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\;huge amounts of horsepower to power through the kinetic (dynamic) friction zone. But I don't know of any production bike that is capable of this type of horsepower.
ORIGINAL: NorCalDyna
Wouldn't surprise me if it was on a track with surface treatment. \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\; We know that it's possible to accelerate at faster than 1 G, since drag bikes (let alone cars) do it all the time.
Wouldn't surprise me if it was on a track with surface treatment. \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\; We know that it's possible to accelerate at faster than 1 G, since drag bikes (let alone cars) do it all the time.
You can only accelerate faster than 1 G in two mechanical frictional situations:
 \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\;
1. \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\; You are stuck to the track or if there is some sort of aerodynamic downforce. Dragbikes and dragsters do it by doing a burnout to soften the tires. There are other rare exception when the surfaces are allowed to distort such as with latex, silicon, or acrylic rubbers that actually can mechanically "grab" a similar surface. I have no knowledge of any tire made of these materials (yet), but it doesn't mean someone won't develop some. The problem is that as sticky as these substances are dry, they are like ice when wet.
 \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\;
or:
 \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\;
2.  \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\;Accelerating \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;through dynamic \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;slipping. \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\; \\;\\\\ \\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;T he coefficient of friction for a slipping piece of rubber versus static friction is about two or three to one (as I recall. I would have to check). So when the tires start to slip, the forward force on the vehicle falls to about one third to one half. So then you need about three times the torque to continue to accelerate at the same rate. This is also the principle used by ABS brakes in reverse.
 \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\;
Dragsters combine both of these effects to accelerate faster than 1G. I general, they soften their tires to become stickier, and then used \\;\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\;\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\;huge amounts of horsepower to power through the kinetic (dynamic) friction zone. But I don't know of any production bike that is capable of this type of horsepower.
So, Soar, what is the absolute quickest a 600 lb machine can move from zero to sixty??
mud
Well, I could assume for argument sake, that there is a 1.0 coefficient of friction between the wheels and the track surface.I would also need to know the engine torque, the gear ratio, and the rear wheel size. This produces an algebra equation that you can plug in the numbers and get acceleration numbers. Unfortunately, torque constantly changes over the RPM band, so the equation turns into an integral calculus problem using the torque versus rpm/speed function. Solvable though.
 \\;\\\\\\;
But I can tell you the limit based on two assumptions:
1. You can accelerate the bike to the point of tire slippage without breaking free.
2. The engine has the torque to keep this force throughoutthe entire acceleration (which actually translates to horsepower.
 \\;\\\\\\;
That answer is 2.736 seconds, 0 to 60.
 \\;\\\\\\;
By the way, don't try this on the moon, where you could only accelerate 0 to 60 in 16.38 seconds (if your engine could breathe!
This actually was an issue for the Lunar Buggy when the Apollo lunar module was driving around on the moon. They didnt go 60 mph, but they still needed to torque limit the motor so they wouldn't slip and dig themselves a hole. \\;\\\\\\;
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 3
From: Sasser, GA
RE: Zero to 60
Running in my head...I just did it in 5 sec.
I bet \\;that's pretty close to what it'll actually do. I would definitely think sub 6 seconds for \\;most and much faster for \\;a bike \\;like sharkey's. I can't supply any \\;Mister Wizard math (or even a stopwatch time) to back that up though...just a wild guess.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 14,564
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From: the 50s & the 60s
RE: Zero to 60
ORIGINAL: Dawg Rider
I predict a rash of unscientific "1-Mississippi, 2-Mississippi" type tests
by forum members in the next couple of days.
I predict a rash of unscientific "1-Mississippi, 2-Mississippi" type tests
by forum members in the next couple of days.
Here is data collected on my machine last year
with the Screaming Eagle Race Tuner.
My HQ 95 build is what I call radical
600 lift cams with aggressive profile
11 to 1 compression ratio
High Velocity Head Porting
SERT is collecting 15 frames per second
Shown here is 42 frames - 4405 thru 4447 - 2.8 seconds
mud..............
Tourer
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
RE: Zero to 60
I know that I'm getting to 60 mph in way less time than all of you because I hear the distinct sound of the Sonic Boom from my stage 1.
It's really unmistakable... especially since I am usually 2 miles further down the road. \\; The forces are incredible.