+1 on the jets .........

 

Hahaha... reading all that peetuneya mess got you jumbled up too...
Hell, I couldn't type for 30 min after reading all that. I guess thats bound to happen when you read over it 20 times trying to make heads or tails of it....

 

Ha, I didn't even notice that til you pointed it out....yeah, I got confused in here to say the least.

 

the O2 sensor reads AFR. The ECM compensates when environmental conditions change to either add or subtract fuel based on this. A carb cannot compensate. when more air is let into the bike constantly throughout the RPM range then the mixture is changed and the ECM need to compensate. with less backpressure in the exhaust the flow changes the AFR and the ecm needs to read and compensate. The debate is wether the ECM can compensate for the more drastic changes in AFR when a higher flowing air filter and exhaust are added simultaneously. According to a few, the ECM in the 07+ bikes can compensate. The 14.7:1 AFR the ECM is set to is a lean AFR. Even if the ECM compensates the bike will continue to adjust it's mixture of air and fuel to this ratio. For increased gains in performance the bike will run best around 13.2:1 or thereabouts. This is only obtained through a tuner or remap that allows the ECM to attempt to maintain this better performing ratio. The dyno tuners can also advance timing and adjust ratios to best serve the bike in getting the most HP and torque out of the better flowing pipes and air cleaner.
I think this is about right... although simplified.

 

You said it and not me. Therefore the higher air speed is someone really opened the throttle real fast on a low speed and did the ECM know each stroke? It sure did is that is called, Sequential. So, if the ECM knows each cylinder and where it is at and the ratio remains a constant and the sensors remain a constant throughout the environment change is some air is slower is some are is faster is some air just is sustained and did the ECM catch every crank turn in a 360° is it sure did.

Are you sure you want to say that is that is your practical abstract in the walk of the ECM functions. So let me ask you how an 02 knows what back pressure is in the pipe to compensate? How does the ECM know the exhaust flow is there are no IAP's or MAF's on the exhaust side is a wet or dry 02 sensor is no pressure per say is the intake side is all about pressure change on the suck side is you want to say that, correct?

Well, did dent I sorta trump your debate is the ECM has the pressure drop handled is you think the electrics cannot keep up with the crank spin is showed you with the F1 injector towers planted at all sorts of positions. And once again is there an air speed change not more air down the same bore? Are you one of those that say 'more air' when the physics tell you it is equal not more not less is you keep your theory in the debate is you have no solid answer is the physics left the building with Elvis is you mus think he is still alive and was spotted with pee the yellow bread leak is that a leaky theory or watt?
Tizz the same debate is fuel-spark-compression is no debate there, guy. You wanna debate that? YOu cannot is you cannot debate faster air speed with carb to 360° sequence fire in the analog/digital mode called a totally different animal called, FI or DFI.


So, watt is again you are saying is that since 1999 for example is the Busa came out that year and has yet to change the ECM is it still fires the same air to fuel ratio is ideal 14.7 is we do not hang in that ideal is if we lived in a vacuum is yes we would but the 1Atmo is ever changing is remains constant. No matter the potaTOE chip is you are stepping all over that theory is can really mess it up is am I messing up theory or does it walk in the absolute? Did the air change in the bag from sea level to 2,500 feet above is no it did not inside that bag is it remained constant is yes or no is no debate.

Say 17:1 is peak performance, best mileage, best O/A is 17:1 crisp, clean, ragged edge responsive.
Now, you set your pile up to 13.1 is looking like a race is about to commence. Strong, fuel dumping, smoother squash of the crisp lean is she lost some street savvy crispness. More like 14.5:1 is a touch rich for my blood... Street wise that is. I stay stock with more air is the quicker (crank) speed, (happened faster than your same stock air cleaner is we throttle rip the cables together is who do you think is gonna leave sooner @ 360° per?)

I do not think so is, yes you have the simplicity correct is you are all about debate though is you are missing what the FI thinks you forgot is covered your *** is anyway is that animal with the sensors is not water jets is that took a physical move to pull liquid out of a hole. Injectors work with precision hits to the specific crank position each time is pre-set compensated via the absolute air pressure sensor or the 02 is the difference between open and closed loop.

I can show you a drag racing shot of some 1000cc Suzuki with both wheels off the ground at the starting lights or line is he took off and it now inches off the ground, literally. I have a much faster bike and the mod is a much faster air speed with zero piggy to compensate any air flow you think the 360° sequencer missed. My bike jumps off bumps is if I hit the throttle and did not know the bump in the road was there is this happened twice so far on the cable rip. So, for me to boogie away from an on coming truck is I missed the timing coming on the on ramp to blend in with traffic. This bike used to have a second set of throttle plates to slow the air speed down heading in the cylinder so as not to feel all that world's fast test all at once. I did test for air speed on my ECU, an she is gonna dispute me is my bike is a puddle jumper is I call her, "Puddles" is she scares the, 'She It' out of me is the bike is still stock and plugged up on the exhaust end is basically stock with a faster air ingest.

 

rounder, Your answer was clear and concise. Thanks.

From what you say, am I to understand that the sensors calculate the AFR on the exhaust gases?

Wouldn't it make sense to put it in at some point after the injectors?

 

This total overuse of "is" is killing me.

 

Pee I am not debating you or arguing...I am having a hard time understanding your language as the word "is" is not correct. I have no clue what point you are trying to make. Also I think you have lean vs. rich AFR #'s backwards. 17:1 AFR would kill your engine due to lean issues not rich ones. If you can find a performance expert that will tune an air cooled Harley to 14:1 and call it rich...well... I don't think so.
If you could make a point that has something to do with the question in this thread, it may be helpful as none of us are trying to get a "better understanding of FI " we are talking about whether or not the FI system needs a tuner(or remap) when stage 1 is added.
Anyway put a bike on a Dyno where AFR is read and the AFR will be more lean when the bike has a higher flow intake and exhaust.

 

I is sorry but weeze is having a tough time understanding what you is saying because you is using "IS" way too much and is not is using correct punctuating is in the right places? Is like you is trying to type at WOT? faster than you is fingers is keep up? I is not sure what you is saying but I is sure you is actually is must speak better than you is type?

I also hope you can take a little "ribbing"

Rounder... thats pretty much how a very good indie tech explained it to me.

 

O2 sensors sence the oxygen in the exhaust gases and then send a signal back to the ECM to work with other sensors to maintain set fuel air ratios.
there are other sensors at work(intake sensor, head temp, etc.) to have the tuner maintain proper AFR as well. the O2 sensors being bypassed like in a PCIII change the way a bike will run up to 3K RPM over a SERT or TTS Mastertune. the PCII is limited in this way and is really just a low budget alternative to a better system. If a PCIII is run, it can run rich or lean to 3K depending on atmosphere and altitude, however, in no way will it be as drastic as a carb due to other sensors involved.