*******countersteering*******
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 29,598
Likes: 19
From: Oregon
RE: My first Ride on my Wide Glide
I agree, but I know a lot of Harley riders who slow way down for curves and think their bikes don't corner well, lol.
Here's a page with a video on counter steering. I never met anyone who poo-pooed counter steering who could scrape the floorboards like this. Listen, he scrapes.
Think of how this might save a life some day when that car who "can't see motorcycles" pulls right out in front of a bike.
http://www.goldangels.com/videos/Obs...bsticalmpg.htm
This isn't just applicable to slalom turns and accident avoidance like in this video. You can stay in that turn and do donuts all day with the floorboard down and it's easy. You can sweep through turns on the highway with amazing ease.
Given a sound, dry road, a good rider can safely and easily scrape the shiny parts ona Harley any time he feels like it.
Stay safe.
Here's a page with a video on counter steering. I never met anyone who poo-pooed counter steering who could scrape the floorboards like this. Listen, he scrapes.
Think of how this might save a life some day when that car who "can't see motorcycles" pulls right out in front of a bike.
http://www.goldangels.com/videos/Obs...bsticalmpg.htm
This isn't just applicable to slalom turns and accident avoidance like in this video. You can stay in that turn and do donuts all day with the floorboard down and it's easy. You can sweep through turns on the highway with amazing ease.
Given a sound, dry road, a good rider can safely and easily scrape the shiny parts ona Harley any time he feels like it.
Stay safe.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,754
Likes: 4
From: GA
RE: My first Ride on my Wide Glide
First, thank you for your service and congratulations on retirement. Second, congratulations on the new Wide Glide - very nice bikes.
I, too, have been riding for about 30 years and first really got a good description of counter-steering about three years ago. When I played around with it, I realized that I had been doing it all along, but I had not been taking full advantage of the technique. I practiced it and got comfortable with it and now I can sling that Electra Glide around like it is nothing without really leaning my body at all. If you experienced riders don't want to mess with it, that's fine. But IMHO, any new rider should be working on it until it is second nature.
I, too, have been riding for about 30 years and first really got a good description of counter-steering about three years ago. When I played around with it, I realized that I had been doing it all along, but I had not been taking full advantage of the technique. I practiced it and got comfortable with it and now I can sling that Electra Glide around like it is nothing without really leaning my body at all. If you experienced riders don't want to mess with it, that's fine. But IMHO, any new rider should be working on it until it is second nature.
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 978
Likes: 0
From: Southeastern USA
RE: My first Ride on my Wide Glide
ORIGINAL: cardboard
Jbaker, I'm one that can't countersteer. I raced dirt bikes too. I've tried the countersteering bikes and the instructor I talked with suggested at my age and as long as I been riding not to use it.
Guess I'm a hard head, but have made it for a few years just leaning the bike and sliding around on the seat.
Jbaker, I'm one that can't countersteer. I raced dirt bikes too. I've tried the countersteering bikes and the instructor I talked with suggested at my age and as long as I been riding not to use it.
Guess I'm a hard head, but have made it for a few years just leaning the bike and sliding around on the seat.
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 29,598
Likes: 19
From: Oregon
RE: My first Ride on my Wide Glide
You're countersteering. I don't care if you're doing it subconciously, conciously, or instinctively, you're doing it.
I agree that if someone rides really well...
Remember when we were kids and had bikes? You'd be on a sidewalk riding along next to the edge - the gutter -and try to turn back onto the sidewalk but you'd get sucked right off the curb? Same with a rut in a dirt road? Same thing. The bike will go in exactly the opposite direction in which you "try" to steer.
I know a guy who just wiped out on a guard rail on his Harley. He got too close and couldn't get away from it. He sideswiped it, went down and got messed up bad. No, he didn't believe in counter steering...
While I agree with you, I'd like to see all of my friends know about it and become practiced at it. It's when you really need it to make that corner or to avoid something that imho you have to know it works and how to do it.
Stay safe,
JB
Edit - If you watch that video link above, those guys have to know what they are doing - countersteering. Don't they just have to??
They have to practice it to make those big bikes dance like that.
Beginners on motorcycles in just a couple of days of rider safety class work can do that even if they've never ridden a motorcycle before. I've seen it. The whole class can do it.
I took it that those were students driving those bikes - ordinary folks. If not, they could be because I've seen it lots.
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 978
Likes: 0
From: Southeastern USA
RE: My first Ride on my Wide Glide
ORIGINAL: JBaker421
Maybe, but I've ridden with an awful lot of guys who slow way down on real corners and bitch that these big bikes don't corner well.
I agree that if someone rides really well...
Remember when we were kids and had bikes? You'd be on a sidewalk riding along next to the edge - the gutter -and try to turn back onto the sidewalk but you'd get sucked right off the curb? Same with a rut in a dirt road? Same thing. The bike will go in exactly the opposite direction in which you "try" to steer.
I know a guy who just wiped out on a guard rail on his Harley. He got too close and couldn't get away from it. He sideswiped it, went down and got messed up bad. No, he didn't believe in counter steering...
While I agree with you, I'd like to see all of my friends know about it and become practiced at it. It's when you really need it to make that corner or to avoid something that imho you have to know it works and how to do it.
Stay safe,
JB
You're countersteering. I don't care if you're doing it subconciously, conciously, or instinctively, you're doing it.
I agree that if someone rides really well...
Remember when we were kids and had bikes? You'd be on a sidewalk riding along next to the edge - the gutter -and try to turn back onto the sidewalk but you'd get sucked right off the curb? Same with a rut in a dirt road? Same thing. The bike will go in exactly the opposite direction in which you "try" to steer.
I know a guy who just wiped out on a guard rail on his Harley. He got too close and couldn't get away from it. He sideswiped it, went down and got messed up bad. No, he didn't believe in counter steering...
While I agree with you, I'd like to see all of my friends know about it and become practiced at it. It's when you really need it to make that corner or to avoid something that imho you have to know it works and how to do it.
Stay safe,
JB
On the subject of leaning, if combined with countersteering, leaning CAN get you around a lot tighter curve at a lot higher rate of speed, than countersteering alone. However, leaning alone ain't gonna get it.
These things WILL corner. They are obviously not going to keep up with a CBR 1000, ect, but by the same token, a lot of guys go down on these things that don't have to, they just didn't know what to do when they were too hot in a turn, and couldn't handle it.
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 29,598
Likes: 19
From: Oregon
RE: My first Ride on my Wide Glide
Wow! Nice pics... Hey, in your pics I can clearly see that you are turning to the right but your front wheel is turned left. You might make some believers with those pics. We see that in pro racing all the time, but those are great shots.
I can clearly see that if you're not actually scraping something you sure could if you wanted. I think you are scraping your pegs (at least)in the second pic? I ride with a lot of "bikers" and you, and I, and one friend of mine are the only Harley owners I know who can do that and be totally safe. I can see from your relaxed position that you are in control of that bike and not vica versa.
Interesting, in both the video linked above and in your pics, it's very clear that you don't have to lean the bike. In all of these cases you and those in the video are more or less upright and the bike is pulling you around the curve.
Nice riding and thanks for those pics. Worth a 1000 words, lol. You are so comfortable scraping your a$$ of that no one could argue...
I'm not trying to be a know-it-all here at all. I just worry about my fellow riders who learned years ago before they taught this stuff...
I can clearly see that if you're not actually scraping something you sure could if you wanted. I think you are scraping your pegs (at least)in the second pic? I ride with a lot of "bikers" and you, and I, and one friend of mine are the only Harley owners I know who can do that and be totally safe. I can see from your relaxed position that you are in control of that bike and not vica versa.
Interesting, in both the video linked above and in your pics, it's very clear that you don't have to lean the bike. In all of these cases you and those in the video are more or less upright and the bike is pulling you around the curve.
Nice riding and thanks for those pics. Worth a 1000 words, lol. You are so comfortable scraping your a$$ of that no one could argue...
I'm not trying to be a know-it-all here at all. I just worry about my fellow riders who learned years ago before they taught this stuff...
ORIGINAL: Psycho
I agree on wanting to see more people practice it. Many years ago, I got in that situation where I drew a blank, and couldn't get the bike to go where I wanted it too. I later described it to an old friend of my dads who had ridden gold wings for years, and he told me exactly what happened, exactly what went wrong, and then explained the principles of countersteering to me. I started putting into practice the things he had told me, and over the last fifteen odd years, it's made all the difference in the world to me.
On the subject of leaning, if combined with countersteering, leaning CAN get you around a lot tighter curve at a lot higher rate of speed, than countersteering alone. However, leaning alone ain't gonna get it.
These things WILL corner. They are obviously not going to keep up with a CBR 1000, ect, but by the same token, a lot of guys go down on these things that don't have to, they just didn't know what to do when they were too hot in a turn, and couldn't handle it.
ORIGINAL: JBaker421
Maybe, but I've ridden with an awful lot of guys who slow way down on real corners and bitch that these big bikes don't corner well.
I agree that if someone rides really well...
Remember when we were kids and had bikes? You'd be on a sidewalk riding along next to the edge - the gutter -and try to turn back onto the sidewalk but you'd get sucked right off the curb? Same with a rut in a dirt road? Same thing. The bike will go in exactly the opposite direction in which you "try" to steer.
I know a guy who just wiped out on a guard rail on his Harley. He got too close and couldn't get away from it. He sideswiped it, went down and got messed up bad. No, he didn't believe in counter steering...
While I agree with you, I'd like to see all of my friends know about it and become practiced at it. It's when you really need it to make that corner or to avoid something that imho you have to know it works and how to do it.
Stay safe,
JB
You're countersteering. I don't care if you're doing it subconciously, conciously, or instinctively, you're doing it.
I agree that if someone rides really well...
Remember when we were kids and had bikes? You'd be on a sidewalk riding along next to the edge - the gutter -and try to turn back onto the sidewalk but you'd get sucked right off the curb? Same with a rut in a dirt road? Same thing. The bike will go in exactly the opposite direction in which you "try" to steer.
I know a guy who just wiped out on a guard rail on his Harley. He got too close and couldn't get away from it. He sideswiped it, went down and got messed up bad. No, he didn't believe in counter steering...
While I agree with you, I'd like to see all of my friends know about it and become practiced at it. It's when you really need it to make that corner or to avoid something that imho you have to know it works and how to do it.
Stay safe,
JB
On the subject of leaning, if combined with countersteering, leaning CAN get you around a lot tighter curve at a lot higher rate of speed, than countersteering alone. However, leaning alone ain't gonna get it.
These things WILL corner. They are obviously not going to keep up with a CBR 1000, ect, but by the same token, a lot of guys go down on these things that don't have to, they just didn't know what to do when they were too hot in a turn, and couldn't handle it.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,553
Likes: 17
RE: My first Ride on my Wide Glide
Great photos.
I got a buddy who had an '06 Street Bob, which was totalled in an accident (spike buck jumped out in front of him, he smoked it). He didn't make it out of the ordeal so well on the financial front, and ended up purchasing a used '06 Sportster 1200 Custom from a friend of ours as it was about all he could afford at the time.
The Sportster has the 21" skinny front tire (same as our Wide Glides), where as his Street Bob did not. He has complained about this front tire so much and so often to the point that I think he's just slightly afraid to trust the handling of a bike utilizing the skinny front tire.
I should show him your photos to convince him once and for all that a bike with the skinny front tire can lean juuuuuust fine.
I got a buddy who had an '06 Street Bob, which was totalled in an accident (spike buck jumped out in front of him, he smoked it). He didn't make it out of the ordeal so well on the financial front, and ended up purchasing a used '06 Sportster 1200 Custom from a friend of ours as it was about all he could afford at the time.
The Sportster has the 21" skinny front tire (same as our Wide Glides), where as his Street Bob did not. He has complained about this front tire so much and so often to the point that I think he's just slightly afraid to trust the handling of a bike utilizing the skinny front tire.
I should show him your photos to convince him once and for all that a bike with the skinny front tire can lean juuuuuust fine.
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 978
Likes: 0
From: Southeastern USA
RE: My first Ride on my Wide Glide
Pipes and and pegs are both very much dragging. If you zoom in on the inside peg, you can see my boot heel is also lifted up off of the peg. Tired of buying 200 dollar boots cause the heels are drug off. In the high res pic on the computer, you can see the trail of sparks off the exhaust bracket.
Something else to note in that pic, is that I have a lot left to give, if the radius starts decreasing on the turn. If you look at my posture, I am NOT leaning WITH the bike. I'm leaning against it. If the radius decreases, I can literally hang my body off the low side of the bike, and get a lot more turn out of that bike without leaning the bike any further.
Thanks a bunch on the complements on the riding, and like you said, in the first pic, you can clearly see the counter steering, which is why I posted them.
Helmet is a fulmer AF655. I like it. Not the best ventilation of any helmet I've had, but acceptable, and at a good price. I like the flip up visor as well. It will stay in whatever position you put it in up to some pretty high rates of speed.
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Road Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 993
Likes: 1
From: Southern California
RE: My first Ride on my Wide Glide
Psyco,
You stated:
"Something else to note in that pic, is that I have a lot left to give, if the radius starts decreasing on the turn. If you look at my posture, I am NOT leaning WITH the bike. I'm leaning against it. If the radius decreases, I can literally hang my body off the low side of the bike, and get a lot more turn out of that bike without leaning the bike any further."
I'm confused. Please teach me something here. If the bike is already scraping how can it turn even sharper? It's not that I don't believe that, it's that I don't understand that. I have wondered what I could do if ever in a situation like that.I have entered a turn too hot before and had to correct by applying more pressure to the counter steer. I scraped my pegs, but got through. I thought at the time that it was the best I could have done.
To me as a newbie, I appreciate all the advice from the more exerienced when it comes to modifications and/or repairs, but safety advice can very well be life saving.
You stated:
"Something else to note in that pic, is that I have a lot left to give, if the radius starts decreasing on the turn. If you look at my posture, I am NOT leaning WITH the bike. I'm leaning against it. If the radius decreases, I can literally hang my body off the low side of the bike, and get a lot more turn out of that bike without leaning the bike any further."
I'm confused. Please teach me something here. If the bike is already scraping how can it turn even sharper? It's not that I don't believe that, it's that I don't understand that. I have wondered what I could do if ever in a situation like that.I have entered a turn too hot before and had to correct by applying more pressure to the counter steer. I scraped my pegs, but got through. I thought at the time that it was the best I could have done.
To me as a newbie, I appreciate all the advice from the more exerienced when it comes to modifications and/or repairs, but safety advice can very well be life saving.
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 978
Likes: 0
From: Southeastern USA
RE: My first Ride on my Wide Glide
Leaning against the bike in a hot turn is NOT correct riding. It is something that I personally do, as a safety margin. I let the bike do the turning until the pegs are dragging, with my body somewhat upright. If the radius then begins to decrease unexpectedly, I can shift my body weight to the low side, and actually pick the bike up off the road some, while still accomplishing an even tighter radius.
I'm sorry but I am very poor at explaining how it works, but basically, a tighter turn can be accomplished with less lean angle, if you're body weight is concentrated on the low side of the turn.
Look where these guys body weight is at.
These are correct leans. They are doing the right thing. Having their body weight hanging off the low side of the bike allows them to decrease their turning radius, while keeping the bike off the road.
I'm sorry but I am very poor at explaining how it works, but basically, a tighter turn can be accomplished with less lean angle, if you're body weight is concentrated on the low side of the turn.
Look where these guys body weight is at.
These are correct leans. They are doing the right thing. Having their body weight hanging off the low side of the bike allows them to decrease their turning radius, while keeping the bike off the road.