*******countersteering*******
Grand HDF Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,870
Likes: 499
From: Alberta
Last fall I spent a week on a BMW R1200RT in Italy with some fast company. Man, did I learn a lot there.....countersteering, trail braking, looking thru the curve etc etc. I'm now looking for an advanced riders course within a few hundred miles of where I live waaay up north. The wife and I may make a short vacation out of it.....
I was told (and found out) that countersteering initiates the lean; "If you come in too hot, give it a bit of countersteer to get it over, hang your inside leg out, steady on the throttle and most important, look where you want to go" After a couple of days I was able to keep the pack in sight, although I prefered to ride at the back. The 3 HD's (all FLH's) with us trailed far behind; the roads were just too tight. I scraped the pegs a few times on right hand switchbacks.....
There are a few books out there that explain things quite well; some of you are "naturals" and most others (including me) can get too hung up on the process details, but it's best to put the ego aside and realize that someone else might have something to offer if you really are interested and want to learn.
I was told (and found out) that countersteering initiates the lean; "If you come in too hot, give it a bit of countersteer to get it over, hang your inside leg out, steady on the throttle and most important, look where you want to go" After a couple of days I was able to keep the pack in sight, although I prefered to ride at the back. The 3 HD's (all FLH's) with us trailed far behind; the roads were just too tight. I scraped the pegs a few times on right hand switchbacks.....
There are a few books out there that explain things quite well; some of you are "naturals" and most others (including me) can get too hung up on the process details, but it's best to put the ego aside and realize that someone else might have something to offer if you really are interested and want to learn.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 14,849
Likes: 7
From: Fortville, IN
When I first started riding I had no idea what countersteering was. Pretty much self taught myself to ride with my husbands help. He explained it as if you just press on the bars. I did fine around town then we took a trip were down at the Dragon in NC. The guy next to us at the campground was asking me how I liked it down there and I told him I was hating every minute of those twisty roads. Ended up he was a motocross instructor and he asked if I understood countersteering and took a few minutes to really explain to me what it was. It's pushing and pulling almost like in the opposite direction you want to go. He was able to show me on my handelbars in a way the made sense and I went out and practiced. It was as JBaker described...A MIRACLE! OMG do I have fun on twisty roads now. I'm the one scrapping my pegs and pipes in the turns. It it a skill you truly have to master to really enjoy your bike! Twisty roads are my idea of Heaven these days!!!!
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 754
Likes: 2
From: New Bern, NC
I learned this many, many years ago as "Bump Steer". When going into a curve, at speed, bump the end of the bar in the direction of the curve. When you say "counter steer", i.e. turn left to go right, and it is not very intuitive. However, "Bump Steer" is "Bump Right Side of Handle Bar" to go "Right". You still are forcing the wheel to go left, but it keeps your brain intact.
Here are some links to help with the basics:
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/str...ing/index.html
http://sport-motorcycles.suite101.co...ountersteering
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering
Here are some links to help with the basics:
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/str...ing/index.html
http://sport-motorcycles.suite101.co...ountersteering
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering
Last edited by dlstanf2; Mar 16, 2009 at 03:27 PM. Reason: Clarification
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,306
Likes: 3
From: Vancouver, BC
Ain't got nothin against you learning to counter steer Butt !
I looked at the countersteering. I been riding since 1964. Its nots nothin I'm interested in doing. It was hard but I tried it and nearly laid a scooter down in a curve.
MY wife was taking the Riders Edge Course and she was taught to conter steer at a well know H-D dealership.They had a 3 nite and 2 day class.
I talked with the instructor about the countersteering and told him I tried it. The instructor suggested that as long as I had been riding he would suggest for me not to practise counter steering. To ride like I have always rode a street bike and dirt bikes.
The instructor stated if I been riding as long as I have and i'm still in one piece, he wouldn't suggest for me to change anything. Especially trying to lean to countersteer.
This is something for new riders to learn in my book. It totally goes against everything I've ever done. My old riding buddies say the same thing. If we've rode since the 60's why do we need to learn to counter steer.
So from more than one instructors mouth. Older folks should do like they have been doing.
I looked at the countersteering. I been riding since 1964. Its nots nothin I'm interested in doing. It was hard but I tried it and nearly laid a scooter down in a curve.
MY wife was taking the Riders Edge Course and she was taught to conter steer at a well know H-D dealership.They had a 3 nite and 2 day class.
I talked with the instructor about the countersteering and told him I tried it. The instructor suggested that as long as I had been riding he would suggest for me not to practise counter steering. To ride like I have always rode a street bike and dirt bikes.
The instructor stated if I been riding as long as I have and i'm still in one piece, he wouldn't suggest for me to change anything. Especially trying to lean to countersteer.
This is something for new riders to learn in my book. It totally goes against everything I've ever done. My old riding buddies say the same thing. If we've rode since the 60's why do we need to learn to counter steer.
So from more than one instructors mouth. Older folks should do like they have been doing.
Road Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 967
Likes: 104
From: Tampa Bay, Florida
Everyone thats been riding since the 60s has been countersteering the whole time. When you lean, you unwittingly push on the bars. I never heard of countersteering until I read the safety handbook last year while I was helping a friend get his license. I thought for sure it was a misprint in the book. I tested the theory and LOVE it!!!
Now that I do it on purpose, I am much better off.
Remember hauling *** downhill on a bicycle?
Same effect.
Now that I do it on purpose, I am much better off.
Remember hauling *** downhill on a bicycle?
Same effect.
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,643
Likes: 3
From: Palm Beach
Stage III
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Brisbane
I've been reading this thread and everybody's comments on how to countersteer but no-one has mentioned why learn it in the first place.
I first learned to countersteer about 20 years ago and I thought it was the best thing, since sliced bread, in regards to my riding skills. What are the advantages?
Advantage 1. It requires less physical effort to maneuver the bike than it does by shifting your body weight.
Advantage 2. This one is the most important one. Countersteering is the quickest method for changing direction - especially in an emergency.
Advantage 3. I just love negotiating long turns using a little pressure on the handlebars. To me, it's an awesome feeling that gives you lots of control in a turn.
That's my 20 cents worth.
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I first learned to countersteer about 20 years ago and I thought it was the best thing, since sliced bread, in regards to my riding skills. What are the advantages?
Advantage 1. It requires less physical effort to maneuver the bike than it does by shifting your body weight.
Advantage 2. This one is the most important one. Countersteering is the quickest method for changing direction - especially in an emergency.
Advantage 3. I just love negotiating long turns using a little pressure on the handlebars. To me, it's an awesome feeling that gives you lots of control in a turn.
That's my 20 cents worth.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,344
Likes: 173
From: Watertown, CT
Wow! Thanks to all for something I had no idea about. I've been riding Hardtails all my life (now 67) and this is my first bike ( '08FXDC ) with springs and electric start and I've never felt as secure in twistys with it as I did with my hardtails .I figured this was due to the higher center of gravity until I read all these threads. I cant wait until better weather to get "out there" and try out some of these manuvers. I did buy the "Riding with pros" video but it didn't discuss countersteering or at least I didn't see it but will review the video to see if it was mentioned. Why did I buy the video? I knew I had picked up some bad practices and wanted some refreshers on proper techniques of riding. I do want to take a rider course just to improve my skills as they do regress with age. Thanks again to all. ~Nels
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 890
Likes: 0
From:
The most important lesson I have ever learned was (from a Nascar driver) to ALWAYS LOOK AT THE POINT YOU WANT TO GET TO!!!!
NEVER EVER look at the point you want to AVOID. When entering a turn FOCUS on the APEX. If you start washing out towards the outside of the turn DO NOT look at the outside of the turn (the point that your eyes are going t6o want to fixate on) but rather fixate on the APEX.
This also works with tight situations like getting between two tight obstacles. You going to want to look at the OBSTACLE....DON'T!!!! Look at the point between the obstacles that you want the bike to get to.
Simple stuff really, but it goes against what the human body would normally do so it takes a bit of practice. I have found this advise to be invaluable. I thought I'd pass it on!!!
As a matter of fact I think Ill start a thread with this in it.
NEVER EVER look at the point you want to AVOID. When entering a turn FOCUS on the APEX. If you start washing out towards the outside of the turn DO NOT look at the outside of the turn (the point that your eyes are going t6o want to fixate on) but rather fixate on the APEX.
This also works with tight situations like getting between two tight obstacles. You going to want to look at the OBSTACLE....DON'T!!!! Look at the point between the obstacles that you want the bike to get to.
Simple stuff really, but it goes against what the human body would normally do so it takes a bit of practice. I have found this advise to be invaluable. I thought I'd pass it on!!!
As a matter of fact I think Ill start a thread with this in it.