Thanx Psyco. I have done many things in life that worked without me knowing exactly how. I think I will try this in a controlled setting, going slower than I know I can handle, on a road I'm familiar with just to see how it works. Come to think of i, I've seen sport bikes practicing it on local twistys. Never really knew what they were trying to do. Now I do.
Like everything else while riding, the more I practice, the more it will become second nature. Someday I may need it.

 

Do it like this. Don't go into the turn upright, then try and shift your weight, or you'll screw up. Instead, set up before the turn. Shift your butt to the inside, then start leaning into the turn BEFORE, you start countersteering. I think you'll figure it out pretty quick, and as you build a little confidence with it, you'll be surprised how fast you can get through sweepers without really leaning the bike all that far.

 

OK, please also notice that you and these other riders all have one important thing in common. You are absolutely looking heads-up at the exit of the turn and none is looking down at the road in front of him. The bike will go where you look as you know!! I'll bet if you need to u-turn in the middle of the street you turn your head as far around as you can and look where you are going. Can you imagine trying to learn to roller skate, ice skate or water ski while looking down at your feet?

One more time. A bike goes where you look and you are all looking at your exit point.

The weight shift is about the caster (trail) of the front suspension, partly. When you side-load the front tire it rides more on the edge and "dixie cups" more acutely. Please don't forget the dixie cups. The smaller the bottom is compared to the drinking lip and the closer they are together, the sharper it will turn when rolled on its side on a table. In other words, if you cut a section out of the middle of the cup and tape it together with the bottom and top closer together, it will turn sharper. The more you side-load the front tire the more it gets on its "shorter" and "sharper" edge and it will turn sharper regardless of where it's pointed.

BTW, it feels like Wide Glide week in here so I changed my sig to my WG, lol.

This is good stuff Psycho and you're taking some folks to school with those photos. This counter steerstuff is not hard to learn. There's no balance problem. The bike doesn't get unstable, it gets more stable. It doesn't offer to fall over. It's just awesome.

PS Someone asked about scraping. Most bikes will scrape the pegs or floorboards first and most of them are hinged to swing upward for that reason! Ever wonder why your pegs can be lifted upward with the bolt through them? Now you know, lol.

The next thing I scrape on all three of my bikes is my muffler bracket. (The black one that bolts to the frame.) That's not good because it doesn't flex and might unload the weight from the rear wheel. That's when I know I'm not shifting my weight. It's not enough to lean. Psycho said it. You have to shift your butt to get your weight over on one side. Watch some pro racers this weekend - the ones that ride on paved raceways. Watch the shift and watch which way the wheel is pointed.

 

Psyco,
After reading your post I went out and tried it. I found a long sweeping curve and took it slow enough that I could shift my weight to the inside, then shift it centered again. I did this several times while maintaining the same radiusand noticed that the bike leaned about half as much with my weight to the inside.
Thanx for the tip, something more to practice and another good reason to get out and ride.

 

Funny... I have ridden since the 60's also... mini bikes, dirt bikes, raced motocross in the early 70's, streetsince the late 70's, and had never heard of this until I took rider training acouple of months ago. I tried it when I got my Fat Boy and was indeed amazed! It does work, and really well. There are many ways to turn a bike, and this is another 'tool' in the arsenal to have under your belt. I know early on, back in the day, I could have used it to save a fall... I used to have a Kawasaki H1 (500cc three-cylinder two stroke), and they werescreamers in a straight line.Because of the wide engine cases and associated gyroscopic effect, though, they didn't handle well at all around corners.I took a hairpin too fast one time and ended up hitting a pile of dirt and rocks on the outside of the corner and ate it. I'm sure now that I could have avoided it if I had just pushed the bars harder... I was already body-leaning as much as possible.

If you haven't tried it, get out on a road or parking lot with no traffic and work with it a little... it may save your tail some day.

Roger

 

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Great discussion..

carry on..
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.............demonstrating expert steering

 

You have to countersteer. It's the only way to get the bike to lean into the curve. Otherwise you turn the handlebars and you fall over on the high side. You'll see kids do that learning to ride a bicycle. They turn the handlebars and, oops, over the handlebars they go. You don't really think about balancing a bike though so you may or may not be aware you're doing it. If you are aware of it then the bike is more responsive.

Best, to me, is play on a two lane road with no cars around. Go from the center of the right lane to the right track of the right lane to the left track of the left lane to the center of the left lane. Just don't weave down the road or they'll give you a ticket of improper lane usage. Play with seen just how fast you can change lanes, but don't get silly and do something stupid. Just a little faster at a time and you'll start to see the differance in responsiveness due to intentionally doing it.

 

Guys,

I just wanted to thank you guys for the discussion here about countersteering.

I struggled with understanding the physics of how & why this works during the motorcycle safety class. I think the key to comprehending this for myself was knowing that the bike itself basically wants to stay upright when riding. If you increase the throttle during a turn, the bike will want to "stand up" and not remain at the same lean angle. The perfect drill for demonstrating this was the curvy "S" pattern in a box drill, where you have to remain within a rectangle and drive an "S" pattern without going outside of the box or putting your foot down. The key to successfully negotiating this was to ensure your head and eyes are up and looking where you want to go. You end up countersteering by sheer momentum to accomplish this drill.

If you practice this technique and add it to your toolbox, it will be there if and when you ever need it. Thanks again guys for the insight.

 

holy crap!!... nice clip... am trying hard to understand this countersteering thing and am wondering if im am doing it without realizing it...but then im not sure if i totally understand the whole deal yet... i know the basic info is posted and will read several times more... is this a technique taught at all rider courses?... have thought about taking a rider course, have ridden for a few years but i know my skills are lacking, especially in the slow turn areas... would go ride but its raining right now.. will definitely be thinking bout this when i ride tomorrow...