After looking at various systems, I am leaning towrds the DTT with the dual o2 sensors, however I have not found out it the o2 sensors are 4 wire or two. If the new system has 02 sensor heaters, this should be the way to go. After reading some of the tech info, the DTT system should work great with slightly to mid modified motors. IMHO, I would rather take advantage of the technology avaiable then step back. I also looked at the S&S system but it costs way to much for what I am planning on doing. Great for High performance motors.

 

"I would rather take advantage of the technology avaiable then step back."

I agree! Are our bikes two or 4 wire? I haven't gotten into that yet.

 

You seem to be in the same spot I was several months ago.

I was looking at SERT, PC III, TV III, DTT, & then I found Thundermax (TM) www.zippersperformance.com

I ended up with the TM. It is a replacement ECM that has software to fine tune it with. Later this year they are going to upgrade it to the Closed Loop WEGO system like the TV III an us the installed O2 Sensors. All you will need to do is sent the TM back to hem and they will update it for a fee.

So why the TM?? Compared to the PC III & SERT this was the main reason.
Compare to PCIII or SERT - ThunderMax has over 1,900 points of adjustment compared to Power Commander (279 points) and Race Tuner (153 points)

A point of adjustment is a lookup table saying if my throttle is at a cetain position is X, and my RPM’s for the that position is Y then I need to deliver Z (a electrical pulse to the Injector to give me a specified Air Fuel Ratio). So the more points you have the finer the tuning of the AFR.

DTT was looking good and the TV III was also. DTT seemed to be getting a bad rap because of the software that came with it. The TV III seemed to be the best choice but the splicing of wires is just not my cup of tea.

TM seemed to be the best of both.

My bike runs like a totally different bike now. Big difference. My seat dyno is telling me that. Rinehart 2:1 with SE Intake.

Some will say the closed loop WEGO system is BS since you cannot tune it. To them I say get educated on technology. A dyno “tuned” bike will run great for the given air temp, density, humidity etc. No way can you get the numbers on your dyno sheet all of the time. As air temp, density, humidity etc change, so does the “tune”. Why do you think the “big boys” (you know those guys called racers who make their living at making the most horsepower and applying it to the race surface to win) use computers to gather info so they can tune their engines for the conditions as they change.


IMHO

 

Just buy my DFO that I have for sale and be done with it!!!

Special price for you is $165.00 shipped!!! I need to get some of my money out of this!!

 

WOW

The Terminal Velocity II uses wideband sensors so I'm told. It does nothing with your ignition system. It adds or removes fuel only. Basicly from what I can gather it works for mild builds and you still need a stage 1 download for the higher revs and changed ignition tables. My opinion it is better then a DFO but a PCIII or a SERT gives more adjustment for performance tuning.

The DTT TCFI II is a replacement ECU with there WEGO II system allowing wideband closed loop operation. It uses wideband sensors to monitor the exhaust gasses. In my opinion this is the best tuner on the market now for the Harley. It will get into all the tables. One said he thought this was for mild to medium builds I would disagree. This system is good for wild builds and wild cams. Of course if the cams get real wild with reversion etc the O2 sensors can read incorrectly and more extensive exhaust measurent will be needed for tuneing. Then one would have those tables ran open loop. DTT is a complete tuner. One also wrote them asking if a version for the 06 Dynas may be cheaper since O2 sensors are not needed, they will tell you you need them. The 06 dyna uses a 2 wire narrow band sensor. The DTT uses heated wideband sensors 5 wires. There is alot of info on this system on the DTT site. It is also not a plug and ride system information needs to be installed for VSS frequency, Injector size, est HP etc, then the idle charts and warm up charts need to be made, TPS measured and calibrated etc.

Thundermax appears to be a great system also at the moment it is below a SERT in that I do not believe it will work with the 06 dyna O2 system. Meaning it is open loop, but most of the tables are able to be modified. If they do come out with a closed loop system I would bet it will be on par with the DTT system.

The SERT is great also but is more for mild to medium builds it reads off a Manifold Air Pressure. Wild cams can make some weird vacuum readings causing charts to go off. The SERT allows one to do more tables then a PCIII is also more complicated/involved. With a SERT you can change the charts according to vacuum readings etc. In short the PCIII is not that specific.

The S&S system I know next to nothing about. I do know they have a closed loop system already working and possibly on market. If so it may be on par with the DTT TCFI II. The DTT TCFI II appears to utilize the ION ignition system I am unknowing if the S&S does so also or if it uses a knock sensor or nothing. I would assume at least a knock sensor is used on the S&S version though.

Everything I wrote above is short and of my research and opinion only. Please do not take any of it as gospel.



Happy trails, and many miles of scenery,

Josh.

 

FYI, I am running the TM on a 06 Dyna Super Glide. They work great with the 06's O2 Sensors.
Runs like a scalded dog now. Dealer downloads were JUNK.
The TM will be upgraded to a closed loop in the very near future.
When I inquired about the TM they did not have a MAP for my set up. Got one built and available in 30 days. That is when I then ordered and installed it.

 

That is cool if it works with the O2 sensors on your 06 Dyna. Do you know if the one they plan to release as a closed loop system will be wideband or narrow band? If your TM works with the O2 sensors on your 06 dyna then you already have a closed loop system from them, just not a wideband system. Do you happen to have a link to there information on the upcoming TM or is it just word of mouth from them? Thanks for the info you have given. I been keeping an eye on there site for a bit hoping to catch some news since I have heard they plan a closed loop system on a few HD forums.

Josh.

 

Josh,

Just reread the Basic User Tuning Manual that came with my TM for about the 10th time. Just saw this line.

"The ThunderMax will function correctly on all Dyna Models including 2006,yet currently the ThunderMax will not read the OS sensor.

I did not get into all of the details when I spoke to them about the upgrade to the self tuning model. I think they (Zippers) told me I could either keep the narrow band or go to the wide band. (Sorry, I have drank a beer since then, and may have slept also). I figured I would drop them an e-mail in about 45-60 days to see where they are at with it and then get all of the particulars. I do remember them saying it will be a plug in with no splicing required.

That is the extent of the info I have on the new stuff & it came directly from them. They (Zippers/Pete) seem to be very open about it when you call them and start talking about what you have heard.


The whole economics of the TM & the DTT seems to make the most sense to me. When I look at th cost of a SERT & then the dyno time and then the additional Dyno Time when ever I change something the TM & DTT just comes out ahead. I “think” you can move the DTT from bike to bike just like you can the TM. With SERT, once you hook it to that bike that is it. If you ever fry the ECM when you use a SERT and have to replace the ECM I have no idea what you do then. Hopefully not buy a new SERT.

Have a great week end and be safe.

 

This post is right on the mark. The cost of Bosch wideband sensors have dropped in price where a dual wideband o2 setup is around the cost of a SERT at MSRP (or lower). Thats a great deal for an ECM unit that will hit the proper A/F target across a wide range.

I like the SERT alot but if you add dyno time or a Daytona Sensors Twin Scan 88+ unit to do some home tuning, you could buy 2 wideband ECM units with money left over. The only drawback to the wego ecm is the steeler creating problems during a potential warranty claim.