handling issues
Tourer
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 463
Likes: 2
From: Buffalo, NY
Is speed an issue?
I find that going through a turn is easier if you go comfortably fast. Being in a different gear might help. I feel better if my RPM's are a little higher than normal (i.e. lower gear) as I enter the turn.
From there I know I have the torque to pull myself out of a turn if I feel I've slowed down too much or let the engine slow me down if I've entered a touch too fast.
One thing I learned racing motocross, if my bike gets a little squirley, give it some gas and it will straighten itself out.
Go through the same set of turns in different gears. You'll learn a lot.
I find that going through a turn is easier if you go comfortably fast. Being in a different gear might help. I feel better if my RPM's are a little higher than normal (i.e. lower gear) as I enter the turn.
From there I know I have the torque to pull myself out of a turn if I feel I've slowed down too much or let the engine slow me down if I've entered a touch too fast.
One thing I learned racing motocross, if my bike gets a little squirley, give it some gas and it will straighten itself out.
Go through the same set of turns in different gears. You'll learn a lot.
I doubt that lowering the rear 1" negatively impacted anything. My experience with Harley's suggests that the stock suspension is setup for 2-up riding. I'm fairly light and my bike is a solo-only configuration. The handling actually improved after dropping the rear 1".
I would look into the bars. Taller bars are a double-edged sword - they help many people with reach or back pain issues. However, it shifts more of your body weight onto your tailbone, and provides less leverage on the bars. See if you can find a dealer running demo rides and try a Softail Deluxe - it is low to the ground and has moderate rise, wide bars. It won't handle as well as your Dyna, but you should be able to tell if the bar configuration helps or hurts your confidence level in the twisties.
BTW, I used to live in western Mass and have exciting memories of taking the "hairpin turn" on the Mohawk Trail... at night.
I would look into the bars. Taller bars are a double-edged sword - they help many people with reach or back pain issues. However, it shifts more of your body weight onto your tailbone, and provides less leverage on the bars. See if you can find a dealer running demo rides and try a Softail Deluxe - it is low to the ground and has moderate rise, wide bars. It won't handle as well as your Dyna, but you should be able to tell if the bar configuration helps or hurts your confidence level in the twisties.
BTW, I used to live in western Mass and have exciting memories of taking the "hairpin turn" on the Mohawk Trail... at night.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,027
Likes: 4
From: Eastern NE
I put 11" shocks on the rear of my Bob and standard Progressive springs in the front. Ran that way for about a year and was never happy with the handling. This past spring I installed the Progressive drop-in lowering springs in the front and it made all the difference in the world. For me, it was a geometry problem and dropping the front down to level out the bike was the answer.
Advanced
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
The best thing I ever read on here was a post saying that this guy really throws his elbow into the curves. I started doing that and it really helped me....I believe it is more of a mental thing that I am not concentrating on being precise on the curve but focused on putting my elbow into the bottom of the curve. With that said.....I dont feel the need to keep pace with everyone I ride with and I take curves at speeds I feel comfortable with. It gives me a chance to really get some speed up playing "catch up" with them. If they dont like it I figure they can find someone else to ride with other than me....it is not their bike or body going through the curve. Even if I am ONLY 10mph over the posted limit for the curve....in my eyes it is silly to test yourself and you comfort zone on pavement.
Ride within your comfort zone and to heck with the ones who wish to push the limits!!!
Ride within your comfort zone and to heck with the ones who wish to push the limits!!!
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,898
From: Bedford UK
Perch,
Something none of us can do is see you on your bike, watch you ride to see if there are any tips we can pass on. So one suggestion is go on an advanced rider's training course and discuss things with the trainers. They will be in the best position to put right any aspects of your technique that needs sorting, also help alter your riding position if that will help.
Your handlebars are quite high, which might look good when struttin', but could be part of the problem. When I bought my 1990 FLHS new, I could not get comfortable on it. I eventually realised the bars were turned upwards and my arms were pretty straight, so I was riding with my elbows 'locked' and with stiff arms. I loosened the clamps and rolled the bars towards me, which lowered the grips, brought them closer and I now ride with my elbows dropped, my wrists comfortable and arms relaxed. My wife and I did a 2,500 mile tour of the Czech and Slovak Republics in June in complete comfort.
By the look of your bars I suspect changing their position may not help you personally. Moving them towards you may make you lean backwards, which is not good. But without being able to see you in action it is not easy to say! You obviously like riding on the open road, where the shape of your bars and physical comfort is more important, relative to taking short trips.
Mr Lucky made a good suggestion, of visiting a local dealer for a test ride. While there I suggest you look at other bikes similar to yours and see how their different bars change the riding position. If you are lucky you may find one of their staff is a rider trainer and can help check your riding position over?
Something none of us can do is see you on your bike, watch you ride to see if there are any tips we can pass on. So one suggestion is go on an advanced rider's training course and discuss things with the trainers. They will be in the best position to put right any aspects of your technique that needs sorting, also help alter your riding position if that will help.
Your handlebars are quite high, which might look good when struttin', but could be part of the problem. When I bought my 1990 FLHS new, I could not get comfortable on it. I eventually realised the bars were turned upwards and my arms were pretty straight, so I was riding with my elbows 'locked' and with stiff arms. I loosened the clamps and rolled the bars towards me, which lowered the grips, brought them closer and I now ride with my elbows dropped, my wrists comfortable and arms relaxed. My wife and I did a 2,500 mile tour of the Czech and Slovak Republics in June in complete comfort.
By the look of your bars I suspect changing their position may not help you personally. Moving them towards you may make you lean backwards, which is not good. But without being able to see you in action it is not easy to say! You obviously like riding on the open road, where the shape of your bars and physical comfort is more important, relative to taking short trips.
Mr Lucky made a good suggestion, of visiting a local dealer for a test ride. While there I suggest you look at other bikes similar to yours and see how their different bars change the riding position. If you are lucky you may find one of their staff is a rider trainer and can help check your riding position over?
Thread Starter
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,164
Likes: 6
From: Greenfield, Massachusetts
Um, yeah, that's the road I was on yesterday! And I have come to dread it, even though it's a beautiful ride. And that's what bothers me. Doing 50 to 55 MPH was just something I could not do. So I just slowed down and "did my thing". I am harshest on myself - I feel I should be able to ride better after the miles I've put on, and so want to look at everything - my self (my riding), mental state, etc., and my bike (the lowering blocs, handlebars, tire pressure, etc.)
I am going to take into consideration all your comments, and again, I thank you.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 4
As mentioned above, your bike layout is not the best canyon carver setup, but I think it should not be that bad. The cruising rake and handle bars are probably the worst culprits, but how are your tires? Are they worn in the center? To canyon carve comfortably, you need to be leaned forward a bit with flatter bars, but that may not be comfortable for you. There are tires that have better profiles that are much more responsive to turn in and easier to lean with. Also, the lower the center of gravity, the harder it is to lean but easier it is to pick up.
Anyway, let me throw this out since you are looking for ideas here. Perhaps you may be anxious about scraping pegs on your lowered bike or not being able to get this heavy bike upright after the sharp turn, which in turn is making you tense. The bike may be heavy, but you need to "own" it, have confidence that it will do what it is told. It will be happy to.
It may seem to you that you are leaned way over, but in fact you may not be and have plenty of clearance. You may have less anxiety by keeping your body more upright and counter steering more, counter steering should easily get you leaned way over. Maybe scrape a peg now and again, just to get uses to it... although I must admit scraping pegs is not something I like to do. Dive into a turn smoothly, counter steer to pick it back up. It takes practice to gain confidence and there are plenty of riders that are cautious on sharp corners.
If this could be the case, I think taking a more advanced rider course, perhaps on a smaller more nimble bike, will get you over the hump.
By any chance, do other riders have the same difficulty with your bike?
BTW, Rt 2 is one of my favorite rides. Second only to following the mass/nh coast off season. I used to love 119 too, but its gotten a bit bumpy. You can ride with me anytime as I am generally looking at the scenery and not pushing it, just too many street hazards.
Anyway, let me throw this out since you are looking for ideas here. Perhaps you may be anxious about scraping pegs on your lowered bike or not being able to get this heavy bike upright after the sharp turn, which in turn is making you tense. The bike may be heavy, but you need to "own" it, have confidence that it will do what it is told. It will be happy to.
It may seem to you that you are leaned way over, but in fact you may not be and have plenty of clearance. You may have less anxiety by keeping your body more upright and counter steering more, counter steering should easily get you leaned way over. Maybe scrape a peg now and again, just to get uses to it... although I must admit scraping pegs is not something I like to do. Dive into a turn smoothly, counter steer to pick it back up. It takes practice to gain confidence and there are plenty of riders that are cautious on sharp corners.
If this could be the case, I think taking a more advanced rider course, perhaps on a smaller more nimble bike, will get you over the hump.
By any chance, do other riders have the same difficulty with your bike?
BTW, Rt 2 is one of my favorite rides. Second only to following the mass/nh coast off season. I used to love 119 too, but its gotten a bit bumpy. You can ride with me anytime as I am generally looking at the scenery and not pushing it, just too many street hazards.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,645
Likes: 4,883
From: Missouri City,TX
Well, I may as well throw my .02 in on this thread...I agree with several other posts about the geometry of the bike has changed when you lowered the rear 1", but didn't lower the front causing the bike bike to steer slower.
I remember reading your posts when you first got the bike and you were very pleased with the handling and said it gave you confidence riding the bike...I assume this was before you lowered the rear 1".
With the integrated risers on the '08 and newer Street Bobs, there's not much space to lower the front and not hit the handlebars, but you should have about 1/2" to 5/8" to lower...this will help get the geometry back and quicken up the steering a bit without having to put in shorter fork springs.
Just my .02
I remember reading your posts when you first got the bike and you were very pleased with the handling and said it gave you confidence riding the bike...I assume this was before you lowered the rear 1".
With the integrated risers on the '08 and newer Street Bobs, there's not much space to lower the front and not hit the handlebars, but you should have about 1/2" to 5/8" to lower...this will help get the geometry back and quicken up the steering a bit without having to put in shorter fork springs.
Just my .02
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,562
Likes: 11
From: Palm Harbor fl.
the apes are too high for you to get your body over the bike properly to negotiate the turns. There is a big difference between the way a turn can be taken when you are upright or leaned back a little vs poised forward and read to lean. You don't see apes on racing bikes. Anyways short of changing bars to a lower setup, you have to learn to lean forward a little into your bars when going into the turns. Bring your body towards the tank and you'll see what I mean. Also you can angle your current apes closer to you to bring your hands closer to the body and lower and see if that helps.
The lowering of the rear also has moved your seat to a different location relative to the grips. This also can cause you to sit further back diminishing your handling ability. When I ride 2up my rear is lower due to the extra weight and I find myself sitting more rearward than when I am solo. Just some ideas you can look into. It is true that you slowed the steering a tad by lowering the rear, however, I believe that your body positioning will have more effect on your handling than an extra degree of rake will.
The lowering of the rear also has moved your seat to a different location relative to the grips. This also can cause you to sit further back diminishing your handling ability. When I ride 2up my rear is lower due to the extra weight and I find myself sitting more rearward than when I am solo. Just some ideas you can look into. It is true that you slowed the steering a tad by lowering the rear, however, I believe that your body positioning will have more effect on your handling than an extra degree of rake will.
Last edited by rounder; Sep 14, 2009 at 09:20 AM.