wet sanding for prep
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,235
Likes: 65
From: Joliet, Illinois
Pinstrips & decals... I'm with JRK on sanding them off. The ONLY time I would do any less would be in a repair where I was painting a portion where there were no pinstripes or decals, and I was just scuffing the clear over them so I could shoot clear over the whole thing. Honestly though, if *I*were just painting two tanks and a fender, I'd go down to the primer on all of them, no matter what. If the strips/decals are buried well enough in the clear, and you have enough clear on there to scuff without getting too far in to it, you might get away with shooting over it and having it not show through, but, it's too easy to just sand down to the primer and start from there to make it worth the risk.
As for using a Single Stage paint... I wouldn't go there. Laying out single stage well is actually a bit more difficult for a new painter, especially a metallic. You need to apply it very evenly (although, you do have some l attitude in sanding and buffing it out later). If you don't lay it on wet enough, and give it enough time to dry (i.e., use a slow enough reducer), the flake won't lay out right and you'll get tiger stripes or blotches. You're far better off going with an less expensive base coat, and cheap clear. Even cheap clears are pretty good these days (and pretty much everything beats whatever the hell Harley uses at the factory).
BLACKPULLET - No. Scuffing and rubbing compounds are different. One of the favorites used in Body Shops is Presta Scuff Stuff.
As for using a Single Stage paint... I wouldn't go there. Laying out single stage well is actually a bit more difficult for a new painter, especially a metallic. You need to apply it very evenly (although, you do have some l attitude in sanding and buffing it out later). If you don't lay it on wet enough, and give it enough time to dry (i.e., use a slow enough reducer), the flake won't lay out right and you'll get tiger stripes or blotches. You're far better off going with an less expensive base coat, and cheap clear. Even cheap clears are pretty good these days (and pretty much everything beats whatever the hell Harley uses at the factory).
BLACKPULLET - No. Scuffing and rubbing compounds are different. One of the favorites used in Body Shops is Presta Scuff Stuff.
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Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Indiana
I bought a how-to DVD with the paint so hopefully it will be informative enough and I am talented or vigilant enough to end up with a decent finish. I got all winter to get it right trial and error story of my life,learning by doing thanks a lot guys. GMH Blackpullet
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,235
Likes: 65
From: Joliet, Illinois
Practice shooting on some scrap metal before you hit your tins. ... and, you're right - having all winter to do it, if you end up with something you don't like, you just sand it down and do it again. It's just paint.
One thing I was experimenting with for my bike (I want a *deep* gloss black) is shooting clear over a single stage. I painted one half of a panel with black base coat, and the other half with the same formula mixed as a single stage. Then I cleared the whole panel. WOW! ... the only problem I would be concerned with was the durability of the clear over the single stage. Talked with a bunch of our techs and the guys at the training center. No one knew how it would hold up since it's not something anyone had ever tested.
Anyway, my point is, if you do a great single stage job and you like it, and at some point you decide to give it some extra dazzle, you might consider shooting a couple of coats of clear over it.
One thing I was experimenting with for my bike (I want a *deep* gloss black) is shooting clear over a single stage. I painted one half of a panel with black base coat, and the other half with the same formula mixed as a single stage. Then I cleared the whole panel. WOW! ... the only problem I would be concerned with was the durability of the clear over the single stage. Talked with a bunch of our techs and the guys at the training center. No one knew how it would hold up since it's not something anyone had ever tested.
Anyway, my point is, if you do a great single stage job and you like it, and at some point you decide to give it some extra dazzle, you might consider shooting a couple of coats of clear over it.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,235
Likes: 65
From: Joliet, Illinois
Practice shooting on some scrap metal before you hit your tins. ... and, you're right - having all winter to do it, if you end up with something you don't like, you just sand it down and do it again. It's just paint.
One thing I was experimenting with for my bike (I want a *deep* gloss black) is shooting clear over a single stage. I painted one half of a panel with black base coat, and the other half with the same formula mixed as a single stage. Then I cleared the whole panel. WOW! ... the only problem I would be concerned with was the durability of the clear over the single stage. Talked with a bunch of our techs and the guys at the training center. No one knew how it would hold up since it's not something anyone had ever tested.
Anyway, my point is, if you do a great single stage job and you like it, and at some point you decide to give it some extra dazzle, you might consider shooting a couple of coats of clear over it.
One thing I was experimenting with for my bike (I want a *deep* gloss black) is shooting clear over a single stage. I painted one half of a panel with black base coat, and the other half with the same formula mixed as a single stage. Then I cleared the whole panel. WOW! ... the only problem I would be concerned with was the durability of the clear over the single stage. Talked with a bunch of our techs and the guys at the training center. No one knew how it would hold up since it's not something anyone had ever tested.
Anyway, my point is, if you do a great single stage job and you like it, and at some point you decide to give it some extra dazzle, you might consider shooting a couple of coats of clear over it.
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 491
Likes: 1
From: Mass.
DoomBuggy is dead on .........Removing all the wax on top first is the first thing ......I agree with the 600 guys here ....Both the gray 3m pad and the 600 will work . In your case I would use 600 WD ..I would only use the pad to get into the nooks that it is hard to get at with paper . In my shop If I'm going to blend an adjacent panel we actually clean the panel and DA it with 800 dry ...scuff pads can be inconsistant with their abrasiveness and although they are claimed to be equal to either 600 or whatever ...too agressive of a hand and you can put a pretty good scratch in the item.( these scratches are a much bigger deal if you are doing a basecoat clearcoat with a Metallic, A solid color it isnt as big a deal)... as long as your 600 WD is kept clean its harder to cause an issue. Sand in the same back and forth direction and only apply light to medium pressure . DO NOT use a red 3m pad they are too abrasive .
also ...if you go through the clear to the base ( like if you removed a decal, you should put a few coats of fill/sand primer and feather the edge where the clear meets the base..otherwise you could get lifting along the perimiter of that area .
Disclaimer :.. please ..I'm only giving my opinion here ..I do this EVERY day from 6am -5pm M-F. Our family owned shop has been in business for 50 years and I only speak of what works for me ...
Good luck and Have a great Thanksgiving : ) ......Mark
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/w...00/Notmine.jpg
also ...if you go through the clear to the base ( like if you removed a decal, you should put a few coats of fill/sand primer and feather the edge where the clear meets the base..otherwise you could get lifting along the perimiter of that area .
Disclaimer :.. please ..I'm only giving my opinion here ..I do this EVERY day from 6am -5pm M-F. Our family owned shop has been in business for 50 years and I only speak of what works for me ...
Good luck and Have a great Thanksgiving : ) ......Mark
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/w...00/Notmine.jpg
Last edited by Tele00; Nov 26, 2009 at 08:10 AM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,352
Likes: 4
From: Augusta, GA
they need to be removed... whenever i run into something like that, i strip the tank to bare metal... if not it never looks right even with buildable primer and sanding... whenever it is under the clear we take it down to bare metal and start over... Midnight may know of a trick but i do not. we have even tried to heat the area, use a razor and remove the decal frm under the clear, then sand it smooth scuff and shoot, and got great results but could still make out where the decals where from some angles... we tore down to bare metal and shot again... I run into this on alot of rocket tanks.
Pinstrips & decals... I'm with JRK on sanding them off. The ONLY time I would do any less would be in a repair where I was painting a portion where there were no pinstripes or decals, and I was just scuffing the clear over them so I could shoot clear over the whole thing. Honestly though, if *I*were just painting two tanks and a fender, I'd go down to the primer on all of them, no matter what. If the strips/decals are buried well enough in the clear, and you have enough clear on there to scuff without getting too far in to it, you might get away with shooting over it and having it not show through, but, it's too easy to just sand down to the primer and start from there to make it worth the risk.
I will say the local H-D shop shot a denim black Street Bob with clear and it really looked great. Which makes sense since the denim paint looks a lot like base coat, lol.
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