Straight scoop?
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Road Warrior
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,537
Likes: 4
From: The Great River Road, Wisconsin
Straight scoop?
Does anyone know whats up with the stealers other than chasin the allmighty $$$$ ?
I called my local dealer this morning, as I had myself talked into the full SE stage 1 package (I have punched out oem pipes, willing to replace with SE II's if needed, and bought the SE ac last weekend). Last weekend I was told it was $149 for the stage 1 download. This morning I was told it was $149 for the "card" if they had one in stock and another $80 to download it. What am I missing here?
Does the ecm not contain a writable memory area (beit eeprom, flashable/pal/gal, whatever it is) where the values are stored? This is the way other machines operate. Why in the hell do I need to buy hardware to rewrite different values? All of these chips can be written to via serial connection and an inteface program. Did they not take a sest, or sert, and modify the marrige key (beit hardware or software) for the stealers to tie on to anyones bike and download our code?
I deal with 2 different local dealers, and every time I call and ask questions I get different answers. I don't mind suggestions from them, (buy the sest, dyno it, or future proof it by doing so at least) but I can't get straight info.
Anyone been through the meat and potatoes of it and know?
Thanks in advance
I called my local dealer this morning, as I had myself talked into the full SE stage 1 package (I have punched out oem pipes, willing to replace with SE II's if needed, and bought the SE ac last weekend). Last weekend I was told it was $149 for the stage 1 download. This morning I was told it was $149 for the "card" if they had one in stock and another $80 to download it. What am I missing here?
Does the ecm not contain a writable memory area (beit eeprom, flashable/pal/gal, whatever it is) where the values are stored? This is the way other machines operate. Why in the hell do I need to buy hardware to rewrite different values? All of these chips can be written to via serial connection and an inteface program. Did they not take a sest, or sert, and modify the marrige key (beit hardware or software) for the stealers to tie on to anyones bike and download our code?
I deal with 2 different local dealers, and every time I call and ask questions I get different answers. I don't mind suggestions from them, (buy the sest, dyno it, or future proof it by doing so at least) but I can't get straight info.
Anyone been through the meat and potatoes of it and know?
Thanks in advance
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,440
Likes: 148
From: Northwest
When the dealer does the stage.1 download, it comes in the form of a pluggable-storage device if you will. From my experience and what I've read, the download is 150 bucks: period. No, 150 for the card, and 80 to download.
The reason you keep getting different answers when you call, is because you are asking some of the same questions, and they know that you don't know.
I have had the $150 download, and I can say, it is not worth the money. If you don't intend to do much to the bike past the stage.1 stuff (a/c & pipes) then get a PCIII. However if you like to tinker and your bike will be a work in progress for as long as you own it... get a TTS. I have one, and feel confident in recommending it to others.
Stage one "package" is pretty much this: different pipes and higher flow a/c... doesn't matter who makes 'em. If you do both pipes and a/c, then you 'should' enrichen your AFR, because the EFI bikes run a bit hot anyway.
So here is some straight scoop:
Your engine is an air pump. Envision if you will, that your intake-engine-exhaust, is a straight piece of pipe. Your resultant air flow through the pipe is limited by the area of smallest diameter (least amount of flow). You can change the "diameter" of the intake end of the pipe, but you are still restricted by the middle (engine) and exhaust end of the pipe.... and so on and so on... unless you change the entire system to match each other. Easy to change the intake end, and exhaust end. More expensive and harder to change the middle.... for that requires port work, CC'ing the heads, knowing exactly what the heads flow, and new cams, along with piston compression and cylinder volume.
Yes, it can be complicated. But until you get to modifying the middle part of the pipe, along with both ends, your just playing with small numbers, and are doing more for aesthetics than performance.
... just my opinion.
The reason you keep getting different answers when you call, is because you are asking some of the same questions, and they know that you don't know.
I have had the $150 download, and I can say, it is not worth the money. If you don't intend to do much to the bike past the stage.1 stuff (a/c & pipes) then get a PCIII. However if you like to tinker and your bike will be a work in progress for as long as you own it... get a TTS. I have one, and feel confident in recommending it to others.
Stage one "package" is pretty much this: different pipes and higher flow a/c... doesn't matter who makes 'em. If you do both pipes and a/c, then you 'should' enrichen your AFR, because the EFI bikes run a bit hot anyway.
So here is some straight scoop:
Your engine is an air pump. Envision if you will, that your intake-engine-exhaust, is a straight piece of pipe. Your resultant air flow through the pipe is limited by the area of smallest diameter (least amount of flow). You can change the "diameter" of the intake end of the pipe, but you are still restricted by the middle (engine) and exhaust end of the pipe.... and so on and so on... unless you change the entire system to match each other. Easy to change the intake end, and exhaust end. More expensive and harder to change the middle.... for that requires port work, CC'ing the heads, knowing exactly what the heads flow, and new cams, along with piston compression and cylinder volume.
Yes, it can be complicated. But until you get to modifying the middle part of the pipe, along with both ends, your just playing with small numbers, and are doing more for aesthetics than performance.
... just my opinion.
Last edited by archergodwin; Apr 10, 2010 at 12:52 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,408
Likes: 1
From: pottsville,pa
Every dealer must do downloads different. A buddy of mine(Blackened) just had the download done last weekend at my dealer, and the total cost was $38! Thats right $38! He put on the se heavy breather & big shots over the winter and just wanted a download to hold him over until he saved up enough $$$ to do cams and then is going to get a full tune w/sert.
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
From: Central Maine
In my oppinion you would be better off spending the extra cash and getting a SERT and a dyno tune. The Fuelpak and Power Commanders are add ons and they add a bunch of big connectors and wires that you have to cram in to your bike and try to get them water proof. I had a PC-V and didn't like it, had water issues after riding in the rain and washing it. I have a SERT now. The SERT adds no extra hardware to your bike. Alot of people on here like the Power Commanders because they are cheaper and can make your bike run well, so many will disagree. I wish I would have gotten the SERT and dyno tune from the start, would have saved myself alot of money and headaches. Just my oppinion and experience.
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,260
Likes: 5
From: Batesville Ga
Find an indy. As you've already made your mind up that all H-D dealers are "stealerships" there's no way you will ever be satisfied or convinced that you're getting an honest deal no matter what they do.
Educate yourself about what you want then find an indy. You'll be much happier regardless of the level of service you receive.
Educate yourself about what you want then find an indy. You'll be much happier regardless of the level of service you receive.
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Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 168
Likes: 1
From: Saratoga Springs,NY
Find an indy. As you've already made your mind up that all H-D dealers are "stealerships" there's no way you will ever be satisfied or convinced that you're getting an honest deal no matter what they do.
Educate yourself about what you want then find an indy. You'll be much happier regardless of the level of service you receive.
Educate yourself about what you want then find an indy. You'll be much happier regardless of the level of service you receive.
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Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,235
Likes: 65
From: Joliet, Illinois
I think your problem has to do with trying to buy HD parts from a football team. You might try talking to a Harley Dealer. Although there are a few who seem unwilling to haggle on price, I find that frequenting a single dealer, getting to know the people who work there, and giving them my business regularly seems to make them more willing to offer me additional discounts whenever possible. If find this also works with pretty much any other type of business as well.
