An old question: Tuner or No Tuner
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Tourer
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 463
Likes: 2
From: Buffalo, NY
An old question: Tuner or No Tuner
America Iron Magazine - May 2010 Page 112 Column 2 Paragraph 1:
"Since this is a 2007 fuel-injected Sportster that's equipped with oxygen sensors in the pipes, we're going to install the Vance & Hines Short Shot Staggereds with slash-cut ends for 2004-2009 Sportster (#17219/$379.99) [In column 1, it says that this mod also includes a Screamin' Eagle Sportster Stage 1 air cleaner]. However we're not going to get the standard H-D ECM calibration that most dealers will want to install. We've found that most O2-equipped bikes do not need it since the stock ECM recalibrates itself to the new engine configuration in a few minutes via the O2 sensors."
My guess is that letting the ECM adjust to the new air filter and pipes will only bring the AFR to EPA standards (14.7:1) and that you wont get the maximum benefit from the changes. But From what I can tell, spending $320 for a fuel management system is not necessary.
Now tell me why Im wrong and what I didnt see in the AIM article.
"Since this is a 2007 fuel-injected Sportster that's equipped with oxygen sensors in the pipes, we're going to install the Vance & Hines Short Shot Staggereds with slash-cut ends for 2004-2009 Sportster (#17219/$379.99) [In column 1, it says that this mod also includes a Screamin' Eagle Sportster Stage 1 air cleaner]. However we're not going to get the standard H-D ECM calibration that most dealers will want to install. We've found that most O2-equipped bikes do not need it since the stock ECM recalibrates itself to the new engine configuration in a few minutes via the O2 sensors."
My guess is that letting the ECM adjust to the new air filter and pipes will only bring the AFR to EPA standards (14.7:1) and that you wont get the maximum benefit from the changes. But From what I can tell, spending $320 for a fuel management system is not necessary.
Now tell me why Im wrong and what I didnt see in the AIM article.
Tourer
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 259
Likes: 1
From: I'm on the Central West Coast
Having the dealer remap the stock ECM will only change your timing curve with little or no effect on your AFR. It's illegal for the dealer to make modifications on your bike that conflict with EPA regs unless your bike is "for racing purposes only".
You're stock ECM will make changes to keep your AFR at the factory 14.7:1 while in closed loop, about 95% of your riding time. The only time you could be too lean would be at or near WOT.
That said the bike will not run at it's best potential without some type of modification to the Fuel MAP.
You're stock ECM will make changes to keep your AFR at the factory 14.7:1 while in closed loop, about 95% of your riding time. The only time you could be too lean would be at or near WOT.
That said the bike will not run at it's best potential without some type of modification to the Fuel MAP.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,678
Likes: 1
From: Brooklyn, NY
I cant speak for a Sportster, the Engine, size and the throttle body systems are different than that of a Dyna Model 96.
The A/F ratio needed for optimum performance is different for the sportster than a Dyna, assuming they both have the same equipment ie.. pipes and AC installed.
So with out further reading into your article, i'll say that you and they (article writers.) are both right.
For a sportster that is .
Now carry that into A dyna category im sure your thread will burst into why's and why nots.
IMHO.... you dont need a tuner.
I own the Power Commander V. and its a great MOD to install on your Bike, Just not entirely necessary.
but what it does do for you and your bike is open the avenue of Air to fuel ratio and allows your Bike to easily interchange Pipes and AIr cleaners that you other wise couldnt with out the PC.
The A/F ratio needed for optimum performance is different for the sportster than a Dyna, assuming they both have the same equipment ie.. pipes and AC installed.
So with out further reading into your article, i'll say that you and they (article writers.) are both right.
For a sportster that is .
Now carry that into A dyna category im sure your thread will burst into why's and why nots.
IMHO.... you dont need a tuner.
I own the Power Commander V. and its a great MOD to install on your Bike, Just not entirely necessary.
but what it does do for you and your bike is open the avenue of Air to fuel ratio and allows your Bike to easily interchange Pipes and AIr cleaners that you other wise couldnt with out the PC.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 463
Likes: 2
From: Buffalo, NY
I agree 100% that a tuner is better than no tuner but I've never seen any reputable source (i.e. American Iron Magazine) come out and say that "most O2-equipped bikes do not need" a tuner.
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 768
Likes: 0
From: East Texas
All I know is my bike with pipes/ac and dealer download compared to my bike with the same pipes/ac and a pc-v is night and day difference.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 4
Need is subjective, and yes the topic comes up here often (seems like every day).
Just putting pipes on will have little effect on the factory tune. A free flow air filter will hurt WOT performance, throttle response, and make the bike susceptible to decel pop. If you cruise relaxed and easy, its not going to hurt anything but you may not like the ride.
Just don't waste your cash on a free flow air filter, and ride with plenty of smiles. A free flow air filter will not help performance unless you also invest in a tune or tuner. The factory download gives you little return for your $$$. Helps the stealer bottom line a bunch, however.
The bikes come from the factory detuned from optimum performance and drivability, but tuned for optimum emissions. Any tuner will liven up the bike regardless, with different side effects. If you are serious, my advice is to check out the TTS tuning kit.
Just putting pipes on will have little effect on the factory tune. A free flow air filter will hurt WOT performance, throttle response, and make the bike susceptible to decel pop. If you cruise relaxed and easy, its not going to hurt anything but you may not like the ride.
Just don't waste your cash on a free flow air filter, and ride with plenty of smiles. A free flow air filter will not help performance unless you also invest in a tune or tuner. The factory download gives you little return for your $$$. Helps the stealer bottom line a bunch, however.
The bikes come from the factory detuned from optimum performance and drivability, but tuned for optimum emissions. Any tuner will liven up the bike regardless, with different side effects. If you are serious, my advice is to check out the TTS tuning kit.
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Novice
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Leeds Maine
I am running the supertrapp 2-1, with 15 discs and the open end cap. no air cleaner upgrade or fuel upgrade. got 800 miles so far with no popping or surging, runs great. but in the back of my head gotta wonder how much better it could be by doin the air and fuel upgrades.
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,643
Likes: 3
From: Palm Beach
See here -----> http://www.nightrider.com/parts/ied_faq.htm
I have a SERT on my Dyna and I aint ever doing that again. There are only 2 people in the world that actually know how to tune a SERT... CORRECTLY. (Hint: Doc Weaver)
Nope... this time I'm going with Rush Mufflers, A/c and XiEDs. I'm gonnakeep it simple.
More reading here... www.nightrider.com