Swapping out PCV for TTS
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 4
I just read a story on hotbike.web where they used a tts on a custom build. They then used the vtune software to tune it. Afterwards they put the bike on the dyno for further tuning. They were only able to get +1hp out of it which means the vtune software worked perfectly as it should have.
On another topic, If you are starting from scratch and have a bike with O2 sensors, the TTS is worth the $100 cost over a PCV. It also does a slightly better job in practice than the autotuners (TMax or whatever) that look better on paper but cost much more. The TTS kit may also be worth it if you just made some mods and need another dyno tune.
If you already have a fueler or tuner and are happy with it, I don't think it pays to switch. Riders that switch either have problems with their current system, are very **** about that last HP, or have made some mods the current system can't handle.
You will find riders that are happy with any of the name brand systems, as well as riding stock.
Last edited by ColdCase; May 13, 2010 at 01:04 PM.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,919
Likes: 23
From: Seattle, WA
* * * I have read a number of posts where near stock bikes were V-Tuned by a DYIer then taken to a pro, and was told it was tuned as good as it gets. About the only thing left was to play with the timing, which can get you a few points improvement across the board. You need a competent tuner pro or know what you are doing to go there. Some of these systems make timing adjustments easy, its determining what adjustments to make that is hard.
... It (TTS) also does a slightly better job in practice than the autotuners (TMax or whatever) that look better on paper but cost much more. The TTS kit may also be worth it if you just made some mods and need another dyno tune.
If you already have a fueler or tuner and are happy with it, I don't think it pays to switch. Riders that switch either have problems with their current system, are very **** about that last HP, or have made some mods the current system can't handle. ...
... It (TTS) also does a slightly better job in practice than the autotuners (TMax or whatever) that look better on paper but cost much more. The TTS kit may also be worth it if you just made some mods and need another dyno tune.
If you already have a fueler or tuner and are happy with it, I don't think it pays to switch. Riders that switch either have problems with their current system, are very **** about that last HP, or have made some mods the current system can't handle. ...
I tend to agree, unless that last HP or FT-LB of torque is more dear to you than a couple hundred dollars, your DIY is probably good enough ....
In my case, I had a add-on fuel optimizer (Dobeck TFI) and I had just tuned it 'by ear'--basically a SWAG (or Scientific Wild-@ss Guess, for those not steeped in technical terminology) ... I could tell that I needed to do better ....
The T-Max was attractive to me mostly because I got it for about 40% list price (which I believed to be lower than my first best alternative, TTS Mastertune) ... I may have been wrong--I might have been able to get TTS for the same or less ....
But, I'm thinking for me it was a toss up (between T-Max and TTS) and I am certain that the T-Max was a vast improvement over my previous performance ....
* * *
A lot of things to consider, but I would tend to agree with you that "If you already have a fueler or tuner and are happy with it, I don't think it pays to switch."
To the OP, hope that the muddied waters are now starting to become clear and you can make an informed decision ... and more importantly, a decision that you will be happy with ....
R/
'Chop
Club Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,483
Likes: 39
From: Passaic County, NJ
Surfor...I have a pcIII that I have never had tuned. Its running the canned thunderheader map. My gas mileage dropped immensely when I installed it. I used to get 200mi out of a tank. Now, maybe 140-150 if I push it.
I used to think the pc was a good product. I know I recently fought tooth and nail agianst the tts or tmax in another thread. The more I read about it, and yes it all sounds pretty darn confusing to me but Im a tech geek at heart and I bet I'd have fun playing with either product.
I was especially lost when I recently found a thread in another sub forum on hdf that was huge, and it was all about TTS. Seems two guys from tts were commenting on it and giving tech support through hdf without paying the sponsor fees and are now banned. At least that's what I figured, anyway. I digress. I read more than half of the almost 40 pages. Confusing to say the least but if I could get one I'm sure I'd have fun poking around it with my laptop.
I know someone local who has a tmax. I should pay him a visit to check it out personally.
I used to think the pc was a good product. I know I recently fought tooth and nail agianst the tts or tmax in another thread. The more I read about it, and yes it all sounds pretty darn confusing to me but Im a tech geek at heart and I bet I'd have fun playing with either product.
I was especially lost when I recently found a thread in another sub forum on hdf that was huge, and it was all about TTS. Seems two guys from tts were commenting on it and giving tech support through hdf without paying the sponsor fees and are now banned. At least that's what I figured, anyway. I digress. I read more than half of the almost 40 pages. Confusing to say the least but if I could get one I'm sure I'd have fun poking around it with my laptop.
I know someone local who has a tmax. I should pay him a visit to check it out personally.
Thread Starter
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Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: Palm Springs
They are Ohlins, from Motorcycle Metal..
Thread Starter
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Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: Palm Springs
Just took the bike out for a ride, not sure if there is more power than before maybe a little bit on top so it seems so the PCV was close. But it runs much smoother and cooler, my but dyno is telling me pretty close. Numbers were 92hp and 116tq. I was told that is solid numbers for a 110.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,919
Likes: 23
From: Seattle, WA
Not bad ... with 110 cube's it should be capable of much more, but you're still crankin' out more hp and tq than probably 80-90% of HDs on the road ....
Key is if you're happy with the result ....
I really like the improvement to the looks of your Fat Bot the wheels and pipe contribute (IMO) ... a very nice lookin' bike ... and now you've upped the performance commensurately ... sweet ....
R/
'Chop
p.s. there's a thread 'post your dyno sheet' or something to that effect ... if you have a scanner or photo of it, you should post it there ....
Key is if you're happy with the result ....
I really like the improvement to the looks of your Fat Bot the wheels and pipe contribute (IMO) ... a very nice lookin' bike ... and now you've upped the performance commensurately ... sweet ....
R/
'Chop
p.s. there's a thread 'post your dyno sheet' or something to that effect ... if you have a scanner or photo of it, you should post it there ....
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 56,052
Likes: 87,492
From: Western South Dakota
I think that you should be a little over 100 HP and over 120 TQ for a TTS, that is if it the TTS is cracked up to be what they are purported to be. Where were you with the PC-V, #'s wise?
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Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 4
You can find them, however, and others on Harley Tech Talk, which is a non sponsored forum, or a couple of the non-USA based forums. The Australians have a lot of fun with very little censorship. Both of those forums have more open discussion without fear of retribution.
You may still be confused and there is no one right answer for everyone.
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 163
From: Grapevine Texas
I could not agree with you more coldcase. My personal opinion, th pcv is a good plug N play tuning device. I think for a lot of folks, richen it up a bit, cool it off some, make the ping/backfires less or nonexistant, they will be more than happy with a pcv, especially with some very close maps and slight tweaks. That's where I have been and the the guys at fuelmoto, have been nice to deal with.BUTTT, if you're a grease monkey/and a little on the techie side, the pcv makes a good stepping stone.
I have been doing a good deal of research on the tts, and in my case, I don't want to just dump fuel to alleviate the problems I mentioned above, I want to see where my engine needs less or more fuel and give it what will make it happy, throttle response, and ultimately me happy. Not to metion, you start modding these things, for example, I gotta add anywhere between two and nine miles to my speedo, since my 30T upgrade, TTS, got my back on that too.
I don't know a good dyno man near me, plus, I don't have the money each time I add or make some adjustment to pay THE MAN, and if all that wasn't enough, I got this problem with having to know how machines tick, inside and out, so I gots to know, and I'm willing to crawl/fly down the road with my laptop chugging away burning map info for me. My TTS arrived a couple weeks ago, just waiting on my new pipes to get here, no since in tuning now to retune again real soon....
Not sure if I read that article but I did read one about six months ago that had about the same results, only the pro tune was down 1 hp but up 1 ftlb torque. They just did VTune runs, however, didn't bother with the blending step, so the pro tuned bike felt a little smoother on the street. I think if they followed through with the TTS VTune instructions and blended, they would have ended up pretty much identical. I have read a number of posts where near stock bikes were V-Tuned by a DYIer then taken to a pro, and was told it was tuned as good as it gets. About the only thing left was to play with the timing, which can get you a few points improvement across the board. You need a competent tuner pro or know what you are doing to go there. Some of these systems make timing adjustments easy, its determining what adjustments to make that is hard.
On another topic, If you are starting from scratch and have a bike with O2 sensors, the TTS is worth the $100 cost over a PCV. It also does a slightly better job in practice than the autotuners (TMax or whatever) that look better on paper but cost much more. The TTS kit may also be worth it if you just made some mods and need another dyno tune.
If you already have a fueler or tuner and are happy with it, I don't think it pays to switch. Riders that switch either have problems with their current system, are very **** about that last HP, or have made some mods the current system can't handle.
You will find riders that are happy with any of the name brand systems, as well as riding stock.
On another topic, If you are starting from scratch and have a bike with O2 sensors, the TTS is worth the $100 cost over a PCV. It also does a slightly better job in practice than the autotuners (TMax or whatever) that look better on paper but cost much more. The TTS kit may also be worth it if you just made some mods and need another dyno tune.
If you already have a fueler or tuner and are happy with it, I don't think it pays to switch. Riders that switch either have problems with their current system, are very **** about that last HP, or have made some mods the current system can't handle.
You will find riders that are happy with any of the name brand systems, as well as riding stock.