I am guessing that the PC actually modifies the AFR which would change the EPA performance of the bike. If the dealer uses the SEST and just does Smart Tune then he isn't affecting the EPA performance, since he is only synching up the VE tables to what the bike is actually doing.

 

That almost sounds like an oxymoron.

Knowing how stringent Ca. is about emissions, and knowing most fuel management devices are used to richen the mixture thereby allowing slightly higher concentrations of what Ca. considers bad into the air.

I wonder if the dealer is capable of selling the SERT-type device in CA because there is no external footprint. It's software installed into the ecm and doesn't change the OEM look of it. It's hidden from site but the pcV/III is an add-on easily detectable. Same with the TTS. No extrernal footprint. Wonder if TMAT would also be illegal because it's an entirely different (and branded) ECM.

I know I'm answering my own questions here but I am genuinely curious what the dealer will say.

 

Now, Im no tuning expert at all but how can you set a bike up properly without adjusting the afr? Seems like a wasted $300 and then some.

 

Well, I think it's a racket.

If you add pipes, A/C, etc. you've changed the bike's actual VE performance as opposed to what is in the tables in the ECM. My understanding is that these tables are used to accurately calculate what has to be done to produce the corrrect AFR as described in the AFR tables. So I am pretty sure if you take the bike to the dealer and get the download, what is happening is that you are getting new VE tables that are based on a configuration very near what you have, but the AFR isn't changing. So the bike is breathing better because of the Pipes and A/C. The download maybe makes it run a bit better, since the ECM can more accurately provide EFI signals to the injectors, but you are still in the 14.6 Closed Loop system. I also have a concern that when the dealers put the bike on the dyno that they are doing Smart Tune runs and synching the VE tables in this manner and selling it as a performance tune which it is certainly not since they have likely as not made no adjustments to the AFR tables or timing. However the owner comes away a little lighter in the wallet bragging about a Dyno Tune. I am guessing that this is the case. I have no proof but I am pretty sure.

BTW, I went by the dealer in my town and they do indeed have a Dyno. I didn't get a warm and fuzzy talking to them about getting a tune.

 

I had this thought also, modifications by the SEST would be detectible only w/a gas analyzer, but a visual inspection would reveal any sort of replacement ECM or add on.

 

+1 on the PCIII. Picked up one from FuelMoto and it works great.

 

is the PC pretty easy to install? or should i pay the place where it gets the dyno???

 

"Easy" is subjective if you consider yourself a handy kind of guy. The hard part comes in trying to make the room for it. Search the forum as there are several threads on PC install with pics. If you need some help, I'll do what I can to assist.

That makes two of us.

Its not much farther from you than it was for me, but I think I was treated well and received a good tune from Hemrick outside of Winston-Salem. Look up his site, hemrickperformance.com.
$250 flat rate for a tune, at least with my PCIII. I don't know if it would cost more for a different system but he did seem to have high regard for the SERT/TTS type of devices.

If you do go and ride there, let me know. I might take the ride with you.

 

Their site looks good. Informative.

I'm saving my pennies for a Ceramic Black Fat Cat, after I get that on I'd like to consider a pro performance tune. Looks like Hemrick might be my best choice. If I ride up there I'll give you a shout.

 

If you get a download you are getting a different calibration provided directly to the ECM without the need of a SERT, SEST etc. You may or may not get different adjusted AFR values, but you will never know as you cannot see this calibration. In addition, these downloads are set with a particular configuration (screaming eagle slip ons, harley stage 1 ac) that does not necessary meet similar equipment you have on your motorcycle - which is why they typically do not perform as well as a regular tune. There is also more than 1 afr for a particular application in the ECM calibration and it adjusts as based on several factors such as rpm and load.

In addition, when the SERT or TTS is tuned it is calibrated at a simple base AFR such as 13.5 across the board and this is not done while in closed loop as the AFR tables are all turned to 13.5 effectively taking it out of closed loop. Once the ranges are tuned (VE mods most common) to know what 13.5 feels like, the AFR tables are adjusted back to the settings desired (closed loop restored in most instances) and the ECM performs the adjustments made from feedback given by the sensors to get to the desired AFR.

The trick here is to get the computer to be as close to that original tune as possible (13.5) in our example so that when the AFR tables are restored it can come as close as possible to producing the desired AFR (prbly tons of calculations are done by the ecm). There is an adaptive fuel table that for all intents and purposes is a variance table that will try to store a correlating cell value when the afr is not as desired. Example - if the VE is set at 87 for a 14.1 afr and it keeps having to adjust it to 91, the adaptive fuel table will average out at 4. The next time that the tp, rpm is at that cell level then it will start at 91. It takes several miles at a particular range to finely tune the adaptive fuel table which is why your bike starts to run better and better over time as seasons change etc. It should also be noted that the adjustments made by adaptive fuel are not very large. There are rumors it can adjust up to -15%, +15% of VE value up or down but I have never seen that confirmed.