IPB going bad
#11
08-18-2010, 09:49 PM
what other parts?
For those of you who think a magic "high torque" bearing is going to solve the case misalignment issues on your 06 Dynas, take note. Granted, it’s a better bearing than the two-piece OEM bearing but, in reality, it’s just a standard roller bearing you can buy from any bearing supplier (for much cheaper). Roller bearings are available in different roller-to-race tolerances – if you choose a bearing that is made with loose tolerances, it will hold up better in an application where there is shaft misalignment, as is the case with our 06 Dynas. There are actually more appropriate bearings (self-aligning, spherical roller bearings) made for just this application but the problem is, there are other parts of the drive train that are being affected by this case/shaft misalignment besides the IPB. Although you are going to get better performance from this bearing, you MIGHT have other problems down the road with other parts of your drive train. Just my opinion and no, I don’t work for Harley Davidson.
#12
08-18-2010, 10:24 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
For those of you who think a magic "high torque" bearing is going to solve the case misalignment issues on your 06 Dynas, take note. Granted, it’s a better bearing than the two-piece OEM bearing but, in reality, it’s just a standard roller bearing you can buy from any bearing supplier (for much cheaper). Roller bearings are available in different roller-to-race tolerances – if you choose a bearing that is made with loose tolerances, it will hold up better in an application where there is shaft misalignment, as is the case with our 06 Dynas. There are actually more appropriate bearings (self-aligning, spherical roller bearings) made for just this application but the problem is, there are other parts of the drive train that are being affected by this case/shaft misalignment besides the IPB. Although you are going to get better performance from this bearing, you MIGHT have other problems down the road with other parts of your drive train. Just my opinion and no, I don’t work for Harley Davidson.
Tell me this. The crank snout and compensator dont move and the tranny is BOLTED VIA a FLAT surface to the engine. They are connected VIA a CHAIN. So what exactly is being aligned by the dowels in the trans case? Nothing is the answer..... The only way the Inner Primary could align anything is if the trans was FREE from the engine, which it is NOT.
I must say that I love my HD but the only thing more rediculous than Harleys line of BS when they have an issue is the fact that so many people ACTUALLY believe it.
It is how the MOCO stays lined up with warranty work and repairs when all other shops are going under. Combine that BS with their jacked up labor rate and underpaying the techs they have a recipe for getting rich. All while DOING YOU A WARRANTY FAVOR.
Uh lets see replace IPB every however many miles for life and ALL you pay is LABOR? Have 2 failures and we will stick it in your cornhole for 300 BUX. Its ok its just labor? Pay for a warranty and you HAVE to take the bike in for their overpriced first service.... Install a NON HD tuner and it VOIDS said warranty......Oh and my ALL TIME FAVORITE I MUST use HD spark plugs... I think you can smell what I am cookin here.
My neighborhood is full of old timers from back in the day who still ride Pans Shovels and Evos . They all have the same thing to say about the MOCO. They love their bikes, and they HATE the MOCO for how they so gracefully left the true bikers that stuck by them thru the hard times and transitioned to feeding the "YUPPY BIKERS" overpriced machines, jacked up labor rates,overpriced Chinese accessories, all while smiling at their faces when the corn was sliding in....
I have logged over 10k miles on my bike and am a HD newbie by all means. I did however buy my bike KNOWING full well of their business practices and vowed to work on my own machine from day one, and to never fall for their line of crap. I drop info here based on SOLID info provided by seasoned HD riders who are in the know. If a MAGIC BAKER bearing will provide 30k miles for other guys with NON doweled cases than I am all for it.
Does anybody have any HD brand SNAKE OIL for sale? It HAS to be HD brand because my manual said so...
Last edited by parts eeter; 08-18-2010 at 10:27 PM.
#13
08-19-2010, 12:36 PM
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Ah ha! If the Twin Cam trans WAS free from the engine, we probably wouldn't have this IPB problem in the first place. On the twin cam engine, it’s the Inner Primary Chaincase that is being aligned (by the dowels) TO the engine/trans unit. When HD introduced the 6-speed trans in 2006, for some reason (probably to save a buck) they eliminated the alignment dowels. This is the problem. The bolts that connect the Inner Primary Case to the engine/trans unit are not enough to keep it aligned. When someone really gets on the throttle, enough torque is applied to the Inner Primary mainshaft and IPB to cause the Inner Primary Case to shift. We’re talking only a few thousands of an inch, but it’s enough to cause misalignment of the Inner Primary chaincase which in turn puts a preload stress on the Inner Primary Bearing and mainshaft. The reason why not all the 2006 6-speeds are having this problem is because some owners put a lot of stress on their engines and some don’t. If you don’t “ride it like you stole it” your bike will probably never have this problem.
This is not a warranty repair. If your bike is out of warranty, the MOCO will still fix it for free. There is a protocol as to how you have to deal with the MOCO and your dealer though. You have to call HD customer service and go on record stating that you know this is an issue with the 06 Dynas. Do a search on this forum for the IPB issues and you will find several members who have had success.
No, I personally haven’t had any other parts go bad because of the IPB issue, but other members on the forum have. Perhaps they will chime in on this thread...
#14
08-19-2010, 12:47 PM
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#15
08-19-2010, 02:15 PM
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You are correct, and this is EXACTLY THE problem. Without the locating dowels, the IPB is the ONLY thing holding the Inner Primary Case in alignment. When the Inner Primary case is first installed, all is well. Then when a severe load is put on that mainshaft, the force is transmitted through the IPB to the case. Without the locating dowels, the case shifts.
If you’re still not buying it, answer this: Why is it that only the 2006 twin cams (the ones WITHOUT the locating dowels) are having this problem? The 2005 and earlier twin cams don’t have this problem. And the 2007 and later models (WITH the locating dowels) don’t have this problem.
And it’s NOT a crappy “batch” of bearings as HD first stated. The 2006 models have the same failures even with the “new and improved” bearings.
If you’re STILL not buying it, then yes, it’s time to agree to disagree. Wasn’t that in a Dave Mason song?
#16
08-23-2010, 07:39 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Got everything done last Saturday and did a 300 Mile function check to Des Moines Iowa to visit my brother. The stock bearing was totally shot. Results: the bike runs night and day smoother with upgraded commensator and new IP Bearing. 31 T pully did not provide stump pulling lower end power but enhanced cruise significantly. I also picked up a 3-4 MPG increase. I averaged 45.8 on Highway coming home. 5-6th is more responsive passing at cruising speeds than before.
As far as a deep issue?? I don't understand; but I won't wait 30K before I change something else. I will do something in about 15K, just don't know what yet, another bad bearing would give me an excuss to change something:-)
As far as a deep issue?? I don't understand; but I won't wait 30K before I change something else. I will do something in about 15K, just don't know what yet, another bad bearing would give me an excuss to change something:-)
#17
08-23-2010, 07:49 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
#18
08-23-2010, 10:42 PM
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#19
08-23-2010, 11:02 PM
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Here is what I used to identify my IPB was going bad. It was written by PKellyMC in a different post:
"With the bike idling in neutral, you'll hear a whirring noise; mine sounded like spinning a metal rollerskate wheel, or a metal rollerskate wheel on a concrete sidewalk. If you're too young to remember metal rollerskate wheels, it also sounds the same as a bad throwout bearing in a [manual shift] car. Ask an old-timer to listen to it and see if he says it sounds like a car's throwout bearing.
Pull in the clutch and listen for the whirring noise to roll to a stop. If you kick it into gear, the noise will stop immediately. Tap it back into neutral. Roll on a few hundred RPM above idle (not needed if it's really bad/noisy), and dump the clutch. If the noise spins back up, your IPB is toast. My second failure wasn't near as loud as the first time, but a tear-down by the shop still showed metal transfer between bearing/race, and heat discoloration.
If your noise is that loud, roll the dice and tell 'em you want it torn down and inspected; you pay the labor if it checks out good, they pay and FIX IT RIGHT under warranty if it's bad. That's what I had to do the second time...Tech said same thing, "All Dynas sound like that"...Bull-shevik! You know your bike! Most shops are IGNORANT of this issue. Educate them. Point them to my thread "Finally, Good News..." Good luck, and keep us informed. Call Milwaukee Customer Service FIRST to establish a "Reference Number" that your shop can use to deal with Milwaukee."
Mark
"With the bike idling in neutral, you'll hear a whirring noise; mine sounded like spinning a metal rollerskate wheel, or a metal rollerskate wheel on a concrete sidewalk. If you're too young to remember metal rollerskate wheels, it also sounds the same as a bad throwout bearing in a [manual shift] car. Ask an old-timer to listen to it and see if he says it sounds like a car's throwout bearing.
Pull in the clutch and listen for the whirring noise to roll to a stop. If you kick it into gear, the noise will stop immediately. Tap it back into neutral. Roll on a few hundred RPM above idle (not needed if it's really bad/noisy), and dump the clutch. If the noise spins back up, your IPB is toast. My second failure wasn't near as loud as the first time, but a tear-down by the shop still showed metal transfer between bearing/race, and heat discoloration.
If your noise is that loud, roll the dice and tell 'em you want it torn down and inspected; you pay the labor if it checks out good, they pay and FIX IT RIGHT under warranty if it's bad. That's what I had to do the second time...Tech said same thing, "All Dynas sound like that"...Bull-shevik! You know your bike! Most shops are IGNORANT of this issue. Educate them. Point them to my thread "Finally, Good News..." Good luck, and keep us informed. Call Milwaukee Customer Service FIRST to establish a "Reference Number" that your shop can use to deal with Milwaukee."
Mark
#20
08-24-2010, 12:42 PM
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As you know, the early 07s were built with the same cases as the 06s. Do you know if your bike has the older cases or the newer updated ones?
BTW, the IPB is technically referred to as the "main shaft bearing" so if you are hearing/reading about problems with the “main shaft bearing” it could be the same issue as the IPB. Has your bike had a problem with a different bearing other than the IPB?