Torque/HP
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Road Master
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 886
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I decided to contact G2 motorsports. They are down the road from me and see what they have to say. Will find out tomorrow and may end up bringing the bike in there for them to look at it. I would feel confident with what they tune it to regardless of the numbers. Thanks to the input here I know that STD and SAE are different, it would just be nice to understand the differences between the two. I don't mind really what the numbers are as long as the bike operates efficiently.
I mean to hear that the moco uses a completely different means to determine their hp/tq numbers and then have the market use 2 other means and no way to compare the numbers is difficult to understand. I mean the moco says that my stock engine had 92 tq then I got engine work done to improve on that and got 103 tq then had it retuned without changes and got 91... what the????
I mean to hear that the moco uses a completely different means to determine their hp/tq numbers and then have the market use 2 other means and no way to compare the numbers is difficult to understand. I mean the moco says that my stock engine had 92 tq then I got engine work done to improve on that and got 103 tq then had it retuned without changes and got 91... what the????
Banned
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,580
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From: The Internet (& Dyer, Indiana)
There are some "happy" dyno's out there, the older ones that give high numbers.
The old DJ150 was good for that.
A DJ250i will give lower, more realistic numbers.
It's always best (almost a "must do") to get your before and after numbers on the same dyno. Then you can accurately see what your mods did for you. (or what your tune did for you).
Note: You will gain some bottom end with a better set of pipes. That is the range that you spend most of your time in. I can't stress this enough!
The old DJ150 was good for that.
A DJ250i will give lower, more realistic numbers.
It's always best (almost a "must do") to get your before and after numbers on the same dyno. Then you can accurately see what your mods did for you. (or what your tune did for you).
Note: You will gain some bottom end with a better set of pipes. That is the range that you spend most of your time in. I can't stress this enough!
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Road Master
Joined: Oct 2008
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Ed, thanks 
I'm not ignoring your comment about 2-1 pipes and increased numbers. I know that will increase my numbers, just like the looks of the pipes I have and was upset about the loss of hp/tq over the first tune (got it that it was an STD tune not an SAE tune). and that the new numbers were close to stock numbers (know that the stock numbers are crank tunes not rear wheel tunes). just part of the frustration. Will wait to hear from G2 tomorrow and see what they say...
I'm not ignoring your comment about 2-1 pipes and increased numbers. I know that will increase my numbers, just like the looks of the pipes I have and was upset about the loss of hp/tq over the first tune (got it that it was an STD tune not an SAE tune). and that the new numbers were close to stock numbers (know that the stock numbers are crank tunes not rear wheel tunes). just part of the frustration. Will wait to hear from G2 tomorrow and see what they say...
Banned
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,580
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From: The Internet (& Dyer, Indiana)
Ed, thanks I'm not ignoring your comment about 2-1 pipes and increased numbers. I know that will increase my numbers, just like the looks of the pipes I have and was upset about the loss of hp/tq over the first tune (got it that it was an STD tune not an SAE tune). and that the new numbers were close to stock numbers (know that the stock numbers are crank tunes not rear wheel tunes). just part of the frustration. Will wait to hear from G2 tomorrow and see what they say...
I'm not ignoring your comment about 2-1 pipes and increased numbers. I know that will increase my numbers, just like the looks of the pipes I have and was upset about the loss of hp/tq over the first tune (got it that it was an STD tune not an SAE tune). and that the new numbers were close to stock numbers (know that the stock numbers are crank tunes not rear wheel tunes). just part of the frustration. Will wait to hear from G2 tomorrow and see what they say...I still think all the sheets are "rear wheel TQ" though.
Hopefully the next guy that tunes your bike will find the hidden power. It's there somewhere, waiting to please you.
Maybe some torque cones added to your pipes would help? You need some back pressure. Those pipes look like straight pipes.
Disregard that last line, if you have baffles in them.
.
Last edited by Faast Ed; Oct 17, 2010 at 11:16 AM.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,580
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From: The Internet (& Dyer, Indiana)
Based on the pipes he is currently running, and based on his build vs. his his dyno sheets,....... I'm staying with "serious" gain. Also thinking of one of the more reputable 2 into 1's. Fatcat, Bub 7's or equivalent.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! LOL
Edit: A good tuner needs to get involved. Perhaps even his existing pipes will work better with a proper tune. Then I'd switch my opinion to "small" gain.
Currently, his build is leaving ponies on the table.
.
.
Last edited by Faast Ed; Oct 17, 2010 at 01:03 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
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From: la
I went from Sideshots w/BCT QQ's to a Supermeg w/20 disc and the dyno showed a loss of a few ponies, it was a different dyno and operator. My SoP dyno tells me the power comes on sooner but the difference isn't that much. I'm at 20 disc open cap now.
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Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 142
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From: Northern Virginia
I mean to hear that the moco uses a completely different means to determine their hp/tq numbers and then have the market use 2 other means and no way to compare the numbers is difficult to understand. I mean the moco says that my stock engine had 92 tq then I got engine work done to improve on that and got 103 tq then had it retuned without changes and got 91... what the????
Live with it. As already stated dyno numbers are going to be all over the place depending on too many different factors to go into (Different dynos, temps, air quality, humidity, etc). The guy that did the dyno for you should have known and explained to you why the MOCO numbers were higher. Crank hp/tq is and always will be higher than than rearwheel #s (Welcome to driveline loose).
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: pottsville,pa
Yeah definitely look into another dyno/tuner. True the pipes are holding you back some, but you should still be putting out better #'s. To give you an idea, when I did my 103" w/headwork I was running them exact pipes and my #'s were 112/111. I switched to tman 625 cams, hpi 55 throttle body along with a boarzilla and them #'s went up to 123/124. I recently swapped my pipes back to the big radius and my #'s fell to 119/119. As for the STD vs. SAE #'s, the STD #'s are usually about 3-5% higher than the SAE. Hopefully the next tuner pulls out every last bit of power it holds cause thats what your paying him for. Keep us updated on the outcome.
Last edited by red devil; Oct 17, 2010 at 01:29 PM.