New to EFI. New 2011 Street Bob. Let's say I put on new pipes and A/C.

1. If I want to get a Tune/Re-map/Download (are these the same thing?) do I have to buy a tuner? Or can I take the bike to HD or an Indy and they can use there equipment?

2. If I need to buy a tuner can it be used more than once?

Thanks.

 

simple question with a 1,000 answers. Basically with just new pipes and an A/C you don't need to do anything to the EFI (there's some disagreement on this point but many have done it without any ill effects; myself included). Now if you want to play by the MoCo's rules they will tell you that you should do a "Stage 1" download to your ECM - this is a set change to your ECM map that the dealer does at a cost of about $200 (you do not need an add on tuner for this) or so and that does basically nothing except empty your wallet. To do a proper tune/re-map you will need a tuner of some sort. There are plenty of options here but generally speaking most people either go for the Power Commander or the SERT/SEST from Harley. The Power commander stays on the bike and can be removed and used on other bikes if you sell yours... it can be tuned fairly easily either by yourself or preferably on the dyno by a qualified tuner; very versatile and relatively inexpensive.... not much more $$ than the useless download I mentionned earlier (I got mine for about $239 from FuelMoto). The SERT/SEST is basically an electronic "key" that unlocks the ECM so that it can be directly reprogrammed. It is fairly expensive and not transferrable to any other bike and unless you are some kind of tuning wizard you'll need a skilled dyno tuner to dial it in properly for you. There are other options that are simpler and cheaper - XiEDs for example are just in-line devices that plug into your O2 sensors and "fool" the ECM into adding fuel to richen the mixture. I have no experience with these but others on this site seem to have used them on mildly modified bikes (pipes and a/c) with good results.

 

The way I see it is your efi is designed to deal with a wide variety of weather and altitude conditions, so while you are riding it will adapt to these. Think desert and mountains. It also has to meet the tight exhaust emissions regulations all new vehicles have imposed on them. However it will also adapt to minor changes you make to the bike, but you are using up some of the adaptability put there for those deserts and mountains! I haven't seen a convincing case for just when we should have the bike adjusted for tuning mods, or leave it alone. When altering them I have had all my current bikes set-up by competent Harley specialists and taken their advice on what needs to be done. I suggest you do the same!

 

tune, remap, download, yes all jargon. Although your efi will tune itself you will squeeze more power out of your stage 1 with proper tuning.

the following are some of the available tools:

power commander 5 (autotune available)
Thundermax (autotune available)
The most complete/complexe is the TTS mastertune.

 

Slowride2; look into the tuners offered by Dobeck Performance (TFI & GEN3) - they're some of the easiest to install & operate. From the $$$ you save having svs. re-tune - they pay for themselves many times over.

 

You might try the search function, or the EFI forum.

The download will be based on similar HD products and is intended to match the VE tables and timing to the new equipment. It is not a performance tune but it certainly does more than nothing.

There is a whole bunch of add on tuners that piggyback on the ECM, they recalibrate or replace output from certain sensors causing the ECM to respond,

The Thundermax supposedly tunes the bike real time as you ride using wide band O2 sensors.

The TTS and SESTP are tools that actually allow you to tune the engine by modifying tables in the ECM.

 

Thanks for the responses!

So what I'm reading is, I might not need a tune but if I want to get the most out of my stage 1 I should get a tune.

Now the big question do I go with HD or aftermarket. How har is it to learn to tune your ride? I'm not to up on computers. Damn give me carbs...at least I could eventually get the bike set up.

 

Can't comment on how easy it is to do yourself. I get a man to do mine!

As for carbs, it has been shown on here that while they may be easier to understand for the backyard tuner, they don't give such good results as efi!

 

The consistent theme on these boards is that if you want the best running bike, find a COMPETENT tuner and just do what the tuner recommends. The tuner will probably not be working at a dealer, but could be. How you find a tuner you trust, I dunno. You can easily throw away plenty of cash with the wrong pro, many stories here.

If you can get on the internet and participate in these forums, then you have enough computer skill to use something like the TTS tuning kit. Using a tool like TTS is like tuning a carb, but your fingers won't be smelling like fuel (if you miss the smell you can always dip your fingers into the tank).

Personally I would stay away from the HD brand tuning products and downloads because they are typically overpriced and have some annoying restrictions. I would shy away from piggyback tuners on your late model bike for all around driving effectiveness and reliability... unless all you want is max power.

If you get satisfaction from just riding/cruising, you may be perfectly happy with your ride and stage 1 style equipment. Thousands are riding with smiles on their faces and there is nothing wrong with that. If you are happy with the way it runs, you won't be hurting anything.

I think most riders find something that annoys them, however. Whether is be decel pop, slight surge, slow throttle response, hard starting... If you want to be sure you you have a tool kit that can tune out the annoyances you need something at least as sophisticated as the TTS tuning kit. Then you are only depending on yourself to get it right, and you can spend the time to get it right.... and, if that fails, any tuner worth his salt can tune well with the TTS. So your investment in the tuning kit is not lost. Low risk, high reward, for maybe $450 or so.

 

My High Priced HD SESTP was well under $400 USD from Zannoti's. I haven't been annoyed by any so called restrictions.

Y'all have to excuse ColdCase, he has stock in TTS. He is however correct about finding a good tuner if you want the most out of what you have.