Exhaust question...need torque cones?
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 9,193
Likes: 494
From: Richmond, VA
I think we ALL agree that baffles are the best option. It's just certian folks refuse to admit that torque cones do in fact help increase low and mid range torque in otherwise open exhausts.
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Virginia Beach
the reason i ask is because my buddies and i got to alot of charity events and we want to be loud when they do the bike sound offs. the baffles are pretty easy to install and remove on mine. just dont want to hurt the motor with them out.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 9,193
Likes: 494
From: Richmond, VA
Challenge accepted. I will approach this in a way any competent Lawyer would approach such an issue. By presenting expert testimony. Something that is universally accepted as evidence throughout the world. Now, as presented in post number three, Samson exhaust stated:
Now, I present Samson exhaust as an expert witness as they are not only a site sponsor of these very forums, but a premier builder and seller of high performance exhaust systems for Harley Davidson motorcycles. I believe that qualifies them to testify as expert witness's in this proceeding.
I can also offer as evidence my own personal experience with torque cones, that mid range power was noticeably better when I installed them in my 1996 80 cubic inch Harley Davidson Low Rider with two inch drag pipes.
Don't mistake horsepower for torque, which is what I fear you are doing. You don't have to reach too far to determine that sticking a cork in the exhaust path might be harmful to redline horsepower ratings, but that sir is why they are called "torque cones", not horsepower cones. They work with the garden hose effect. Just like installing a nozzle on the end of a garden hose increases the waters velocity as it exists the hose, so does installing torque cone on a wide open exhaust. The improved exhaust velocity is essential in helping to create the lost low and midrange torque that open pipes create. Thats pretty much all I have...... defense rests.
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AZrider is correct. The torque cones will help a lot with low to mid range performance. You need velocity in the exhaust as well as the right amount of back pressure to get best performance. The torque cones also give you an anti-reversion effect as well. Thank you, JR
I can also offer as evidence my own personal experience with torque cones, that mid range power was noticeably better when I installed them in my 1996 80 cubic inch Harley Davidson Low Rider with two inch drag pipes.
Don't mistake horsepower for torque, which is what I fear you are doing. You don't have to reach too far to determine that sticking a cork in the exhaust path might be harmful to redline horsepower ratings, but that sir is why they are called "torque cones", not horsepower cones. They work with the garden hose effect. Just like installing a nozzle on the end of a garden hose increases the waters velocity as it exists the hose, so does installing torque cone on a wide open exhaust. The improved exhaust velocity is essential in helping to create the lost low and midrange torque that open pipes create. Thats pretty much all I have...... defense rests.
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,919
Likes: 23
From: Seattle, WA
Note ... torque cones were developed as an anti-reversion device for low- to mid-range operation ... with the earlier motors, this was useful to mitigate exhaust being drawn back into the combustion chambers ....
With the advent of the Twin Cam motors, the shape of the exhaust port was changed to a more "D" shaped port ... this feature had an anti-reversion effect minimizing the need for AR 'torque' cones with the Twin Cam motors ....
I think you are still well advised to utilize baffles with your pipes ....
R/
'Chop
With the advent of the Twin Cam motors, the shape of the exhaust port was changed to a more "D" shaped port ... this feature had an anti-reversion effect minimizing the need for AR 'torque' cones with the Twin Cam motors ....
I think you are still well advised to utilize baffles with your pipes ....
R/
'Chop
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: illinois
Hey guys i am gunna throw samson extreme bone shakers exhaust on my 2011 street bob i think it would look sick! www.samsonusa.com/E2-101.html i contacted samson and they said they would fit and they would coat in black ceramic for me plus military discount woohoo!!! ...but my question is will i need torque cones to keep low end torque? any comments would be greatly appreciated!
Cons: too short and not equal length = poor design for optimum performance even with cones or baffles
Pros: look cool & probably sound cool
Id rock em WFO!
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Former Sponsor
Joined: May 2010
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Hello everyone,
I feel like I need to chime in on the torque cone situation. Kenny Price invented the torque cones many years ago to help compensate for the lack of velocity in the large diameter pipes being made at the time. They do help develop 3-5 more torque after being installed. The by product of the torque cones was the anti reversionary effect they had on all pipes which help keep the exhaust pulse from re-entering back into the exhaust port. I have worked at Samson for many years so I know how they were developed. Torque cones were not in existence before Kenny made the first ones. If anyone needs proof on that look back in all the old catalogs and you will find they originated at Samson about 1994. Baffles are more effective than torque cones but torque cones are a good choice for bikes with pipes that do not accept baffles. Using both is best for open exhaust.
Thank you,
JR
I feel like I need to chime in on the torque cone situation. Kenny Price invented the torque cones many years ago to help compensate for the lack of velocity in the large diameter pipes being made at the time. They do help develop 3-5 more torque after being installed. The by product of the torque cones was the anti reversionary effect they had on all pipes which help keep the exhaust pulse from re-entering back into the exhaust port. I have worked at Samson for many years so I know how they were developed. Torque cones were not in existence before Kenny made the first ones. If anyone needs proof on that look back in all the old catalogs and you will find they originated at Samson about 1994. Baffles are more effective than torque cones but torque cones are a good choice for bikes with pipes that do not accept baffles. Using both is best for open exhaust.
Thank you,
JR
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 58
From: Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan
Straight from Samsons website........
"are intended to provide the best performance"
"These pipes are the most dynamic and high performance aftermarket exhaust pipes ever built."
That sounds like marketing to me.
Even the Samson rep said in post #3 "The torque cones will help a lot with low to mid range performance" then he states in post #31 "They do help develop 3-5 more torque after being installed."
3-5 lbs or torque isn't a lot, it's a little...................
Same dyno on the same day on the same bike with no changes will produce results like that on paper.........